My First Grow: Aeroponics, LED veg, Super HPS flower, CO2 sealed room

Discussion in 'Indoor Grow Journals' started by Apollonia, Sep 27, 2009.

  1. #1 Apollonia, Sep 27, 2009
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 28, 2009
    Procyon LED veg, Super HPS Flower, Aeroponic, General Hydroponics, CO2

    Strains: Cinderella 99, Apollo 11, Blue Apollo, Sugar Blossoms, Sugar Berry, DJ Short's Blueberry (F2 from Joey Weed), C99 X A11, C99 X BB

    All plants have been grown from seed and a mother will be selected for each strain, except for Cinderella 99 which will have 2 mother plants for the different phenotypes: grapefruit & pineapple. I plan on flowering & harvesting all other female plants that are not selected to be mothers.

    For cloning, vegging & flowering I'm using Stinkbud's aero units, 4 flower units. The mothers will be maintained in a dutch bucket system. All systems have been self made.

    This grow has been staggered into 3 groups - Group 1 being the oldest, group 2 the second oldest and group 3 the youngest.

    Group 1 Strains: Cinderella 99

    Group 2 Strains: Cinderella 99, C99 X A11, C99 X BB

    Group 3 Strains: Apollo 11, Blue Apollo, Sugar Blossoms, Blueberry (DJ Short F2 via Joey Weed), Sugar Berry

    Nutrients: Fed at half strength for vegetation under the LEDs & increased to full for flowering under 2 1000W Solarmax Super HPS using sealed, vented Magnum xxxl hoods.

    General Hydroponics:
    Diamond Nectar
    Floralicious Plus
    FloraNectar (Pineapple Rush!, FruitnFusion)
    Kool Bloom (Liquid)
    Kool Bloom (Dry)
    Subculture B
    Subculture M
    FloraShield (as a problem fixer, not a mainstay)

    & Botanicare CalMag Plus in case of Magnesium Deficiency

    The desired end result is the cultivation of mothers from each strain and the creation of a perpetual harvest - every 2-3 weeks.

    Members are welcome to post comments.

    More info and pictures to follow
  2. #2 Apollonia, Sep 28, 2009
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 28, 2009
    History up to present date:

    6/26/2009: Germed 10 Cinderella 99 seeds (Group 1) using the paper towel method and a heating mat set to 80 F. Seeds were soaked in tap water for 24 hours previous to placements in the papertowels.

    All seeds germed in under a week and were placed in rockwool cubes soaked in PH 5.5 water and placed under regular fluorescent lights.

    Seedlings were watered about every other day for three weeks with PH adjusted 5.8 tap water with a fan blowing on them to strengthen stems.

    Three weeks after germination the seedlings were placed in dutch buckets in two rows of 5 filled with hydroton and placed under a Procyon light. Nutrients were given at 1/2 strength. Plants began to show nutrient burn so the solution was cut back to 1/8 strength. It was gradually increased over the course of the next few weeks to 1/2 strength where it is as of this writing.

    Group 1 was cloned for sex on 9/2/09 when they were 2 months old (8 weeks, 5 days). Two cuttings were taken from each plant and they were placed in the aerocloner unit under a row of 4 T5's set to 12/12 and placed about an inch away from the tops.

    9/11/09 plants showed sex. 5 were female, 5 male. Of the females 2 stood out as stronger than the others. Cinderella 99 produces 2 phenotypes, a stockier bushier Pineapple phenotype and a longer, lankier Grapefruit pheno. The two strongest females were representative of each type (one pineapple, one grapefruit). I'm not 100% certain but the smoke report will tell. These two will likely be the mother plants for C99.

    Group 1 C99 Pineapple Pheno (4 pics), Grapefruit Pheno (3 pics) and all of Group 1:

    Attached Files:

  3. Grow looks great! Looks like you've done this one or two times before :p

    I've been researching these forums lately and just recently came across Aeroponics. Is there a website(s) that you use for reference or information? In the meantime I'll continue to research that and Stinkbud's aero units.

    Oh and don't worry forum-nazi I will be using my 'Search' function as well.
  4. Hand to god, this is my honest to god first grow. I never even used hydroponics before. I've grown plants in the garden every once in a while, but that's about it.

    Stinkbud has a page and forums you may find useful

  5. There we go, that's what I was looking for! Well, you've sold me, I'll be checking daily to see progress and take down some notes for myself if I decide to pursue an aeroponics system.
  6. Sorry for the double post, but how hard was your system to setup? How much money invested (if you don't mind me asking)? Also, how long did it take to make the DIY pieces of your system?
  7. This system is pretty easy to set up, especially with all the resources online in the forums from people who set it up themselves. I'd say it's few hours at either loew's or home depot, andif you really wanted - it'd take you a day or two to make a single unit, depending upon the pace you wanted to set. Considering that you'll not need the vegger or flowering units until 3 weeks later, you could pace yourself and build as you need it. Price wise? Hard to say - they're not very expensive at all - just pvc pipes & roughneck containers & various fittings, especially if you have all the tools yourself - I'd say under 100 dollars per unit for sure. It's just pvc, pvc glue, fittings, and them some things you et from a hydroponic store like sprayer heads and a pump. The most expensive thing as far as the units go is the cycle timer, but you can just plug in the pump and let it go 24/7 - it worked fine for me in my cloner unit. Or you could get a cheap timer for about $20 from the pet store that will cycle in 15 minute increments I believe. The most expensive thing after that would be... the pumps at about $25 a piece.

    Or if you want to skip all that you can head over to stinkbuddies - I think stink's selling units he's made for a pretty good price. Might be a way to go if you will have to buy all the tools - not that there's a lot of them; or if your just not comfortable with assembling things or aren't particularly handy. That's one of the benefits of this system, it's not very expensive or time consuming - but everyone has different comfort levels.
  8. Group 2's strains are the remaining C99, C99 X A11 (Apollo 11), and C99 X BB (Blueberry)

    Currently, they're in a 14 unit flowering aero/NFT chamber and I'm waiting for clones I've taken from some of them to show sex.

    7/20/09: Seedlings germed and transplanted into conditioned rockwool cubes and placed under a fluorescent light. C99 X A11 had a germ rate pf 50%, C99: 90%, C99 X BB, 90%. Seedlings were fed PH adjusted (5.8) water for two weeks, but started to show signs of yellowing leaves far more drastically than the plants in Group 1 did so I introduced a light seedling mixture (as per General Hydroponics' online nutrient calculator: GENERAL HYDROPONICS) in the 3rd week. With the exception of adding nutrients in the 3rd week, seedlings were treated the same and subjected to the same conditions and environment as Group 1.

    I have heard C99 takes up quite a bit of Magnesium and I've also heard that General Hydroponics is slightly deficient in Magnesium, hence my purchase of the CalMag+ which I've yet to use. My tap water also has a low PPM of 90 which makes me think I may have Magnesium issues in the future when the plants will be taking up more nutrients as they flower - I just hope I can spot it. Perhaps this early sign at 3 weeks of needing nutrients was due to the Magnesium issue, I'm not sure. I don't think the plants were overly weakened by it.

    8/10/09: Plants now 3 weeks old and past the seedling stage. Plants were moved into 2" net pots and placed in 2 aeroponic flower units and situated under a Procyon. They were started on 1/4 strength mild growth solution of nutrients (again, as per the instructions from GH's nutrient calculator) - they handled it better than Group 1 which showed some mild nutrient tip burn/leaf edge curling and had to be titrated back all the way to 1/8 strength growth solution and kept there for quite a few weeks. Group 2 showed none of that and grew vigorously. After a week the solution was changed from 1/4 strength mild growth to 1/2 strength regular growth solution again as per the nutrient calculator. No bad reaction. The plants grew very well.

    In the aero unit, the plants were put on a cycle timer which ultimately was set to pump nutrient solution for 1 minute and to switch off for 5 minutes before resuming for another cycle of 1 on and 5 off to run in this pattern continuously. In the early stages I was a little unnecessarily over-protective and ran the timer at varying times with longer periods off and shorter ones on, gradually working up to 1 on/ 5 off over the course of a month, until lots of roots showed. I did this because was afraid of saturating the rockwool and drowning the plants. I also put coco liner in the net pots to help act as a barrier and help prevent over-saturation. As you'll see later on with Group 3, this was totally unnecessary and, I think, may have slowed root/plant growth, but not in a way that caused permanent damage, just in a way that caused me some extra stress & worry. Group 3 were put on a 1 min ON/ 5 min OFF immediately and showed no adverse effects - I think they grew faster than Group 2 did during the time I had them on a longer dry out/ shorter watering schedule.

    I should note here that in the following weeks plants really started to distinguish themselves. Those that were healthy & strong grew healthier & stronger whereas the weaker plants mostly fell to the wayside. I noticed this with Group 1, but having more plants this time around really brought the point across. I understand why it is generally recommended to pick only a few plants and focus on them. In general, the C99 X A11 seems to be the most sensitive of the three to changes with the C99 X BB the darkest & hardiest (and the one with the most scent - although none of these are high odor). C99 X BB produced a smell in the room which caused me to buy some ONA; before, with Group 1 there was no smell. The ONA cleared up the situation.

    8/22/09: As I mentioned before, the plants that were strongest really started to stick out so I weeded out the ones that looked weakest leaving me with 4 C99 X A11, 7 C99, and 8 C99 X BB.

    The plants were moved into a vegetation unit for logistical & space reasons. Group 2 is now 31 days old (4 weeks, 3 days).

    9/11/09: Group 2 was moved from it's Veg unit into a Flower Unit & thinned further. The final tally being 4 C99 X A11, 7 C99 X BB and 3 C99 (less one more just recently as it was a male). Group 2 now 7 weeks and 4 days old (35 days total).

    9/17/09: All plants that I was able to take a cutting from were cloned for sex. 2 cuttings were taken from each plant as usual. The cloning process was the same as Group 1. I was not able to take cuttings from all as some plants were too small - like I said before - the weak ones seem to be very weak and the strong very strong.

    9/25/09: Cinderella 'Bravo' showed sex - male. It was chopped & it remains put with the other males of Group 1 in a brown paper bag of clippings for has later.

    9/29/09: Changed Group 2's reservoir and gave them a 3/4 strength solution of Growth formula, I'm upping the does to find the "sweet spot" - the right amount of nutrients for the plants. I'll be watching them very closely for any signs of nutrient burn or stress. Group 2 is now 2 months, 1 week and 2 days old (10 weeks on the dot) or (70 days old).

    If the plants I wasn't able to take clones from due to their small size don't grow any further, and I get some confirmed females from the ones I could clone - I may just chop them instead of flowering them out.

    That just about brings Group 2 up to date.

    General grow note: Although usually not mentioned unless there is a change in nutrient solution made, reservoirs are changed every 2 - 3 weeks and cleaned, in between times PH is adjusted, PPM is tested and adjusted as needed and reservoirs are topped off when needed with PH adjusted water.

    I'm keeping & flowering out all females that look like they'd be worth flowering, even if the yield isn't going to be tremendous just because of the investment already placed in the plants up until now and to get some practice.

    *Note: With LEDs - at least these Procyon LEDs and in my particular experience, if they come closer than 24" to the canopy the plants start to exhibit signs of heat stress in the form of twisting their leaves and making "ram's horns" to escape the light. This doesn't seem to have left any permanent damage and always subsides when the light is raised.

    **Note: During flower I will be adding 4 48" UVB bulbs (10.0 Reptisun) to the grow as I'm using the Magnum xxxl sealed hoods which has glass that blocks much of the blue/UV end of the spectrum. The UVB will be run for 5 hours every day (with a kill switch on the outside of the room right next to the entrance because hey, who wants skin cancer?) and will be kept at a distance of at least 20" from the plants so as not to damage them. I'm adding the UVB b/c it aids in the production of flavonoids, trichomes, etc as a protective mechanism by the plant. Also I've read many reports of people saying that their bud is more potent with the addition of UVB.

    Attached Files:

  9. Group 2 Key:

    This is the lay out of plants in the flower unit so you can easily identify them when in the pictures. Now that Cinderella 'Bravo" has been chopped, orienting where everything is will be much easier.

    Bc Ca

    Bd Ba

    Bf Bb

    Bg Aa

    Bh Ab

    Cb Ac

    Cc Ad


    Facing the reservoir on this unit's right is Group 1 in the dutch bucket system, to it's left is a wall of visqueen plastic and behind the unit is Group 3.

    *Note - Cb (Cinderella 'Bravo') was a male and was chopped at the time the pictures were taken - so that should help.

    Strain Key:

    C99 X A11 = A

    C99 X BB = B

    Cinderella 99 = C

    Individual Plant identifiers:

    a = 'alpha'

    b = 'bravo'

    c = 'charlie'

    d = 'delta'

    e = 'echo'

    f = 'foxtrot'

    g = 'golf'

    h = 'hotel'

    All strain names are in capital letters - the unique identifiers (their "names") assigned to each plant are in small caps.

    Strain always precedes individual name.

    So Aa is C99 X A11 'alpha', Bg is C99 X Blueberry 'golf' and Cb is C99 'bravo' - the one that got snipped.

    As you can see, I'm using the phonetic alphabet. The benefits of doing that don't quite translate here in written form, but since I'm doing it IRL, it's just easier and less error prone to do it this way. For example:

    (Person in Veg room checking clones, shouts) "Hey, B's a male - chop it."

    (Person in flower room with the snippers) "E's male?"




    "Okay, I heard you, you don't have to shout. D it is." <chop> Whoops.

    I know it's only an off chance happening and maybe I'm just being over cautious, but people are less likely to mishear 'Charlie' and confuse it with 'Foxtrot' for example. That and the fact these plants are so nursed and fretted over (I've noticed I have a certain affection and pride for them as well) - they've become something like a pet and a pet deserves a name, don't you think?
  10. nice set up man.ya they deserve names as much time as we spend with them. i named mine hustler and playboy lol.but id rather look at these than the actual mags themselves:Dnice job on the aero system.i found some part washer pumps on ebay for like 7 bucks.they work just fine i use them for pumping out my nutes at nute change dont see why you couldnt use them for an aero system.
  11. I'm in on this one Apollonia. Is that one of stink's systems? This would be an easy conversion to scrog I bet. V
  12. Hey there Viper, glad you came by! Yep, it's a stinkbud system I built. You're right about SCROG. As it is, depending on the strain and I have quite a few sativas & sativa dominants, it looks like it could turn out as a hybrid SOG/SCROG b/c they can get so big. I know this isn't tiny, lollipop SOG, but it is perpetual harvest with clones taken every 3 weeks and plants ideally getting no larger than 3 feet ideally. I was told that that is a Sea of Green grow, am I wrong to identify it as such? Btw all, updates soon to follow.
  13. Strains: Apollo 11, Blueberry, Sugar Blossoms, Sugar Berry, Blue Apollo

    8/19/09: Seeds Germed. Transplanted into conditioned RW cubes - all done exactly as before with groups 1 & 2. Very good rate of germination - lowest rate was 80% (Sugar Blossoms & Blueberry). Germ rate 90% (Blue Apollo). Germ Rate 100% (Sugar Berry, Apollo 11).

    9/02/09: Seedlings given light seedling nutrient mixture mentioned before for the 3rd week of seedling stage.

    9/09/09: End of Seedling stage. Transplanted into a Veg unit & a cloner unit. Both units had a cloner lids (23 spaces for plants) instead of veg unit lids (17 spaces). Plants were given 1/2 strength growth solution and placed under a single Procyon 100.

    9/30/09: 6 weeks old. Plants were spread out into 3 units. Unit 1 containing Blue Apollo & Apollo 11, Unit 2: Sugar Berry & Apollo 11, & Unit 3: Blueberry & Sugar Blossoms. This should prevent some of the smaller plants getting crowded out (Blueberry, Sugar Blossoms) and provide better air circulation and access to light over all.

    10/03/09: Unit 3 was put under 3 T5 lights at a distance of 1" from the canopy. Units 1 & 2 were left under the Procyon but adjusted to a shorter distance.

    Group 3 Units 1 & 2 (9/09/09) at 3 weeks:
    Unit 1 (Blue Apollo, Sugar Blossoms, Apollo 11), Unit 2 (Sugar Berry, Blueberry, Apollo 11)

    Group 3 under the LEDs:

    Group 3 at 6 weeks (9/30/09) BEFORE being transferred into three units:
    Units 1 & 2

    Unit 1, 6 weeks (BEFORE):

    Unit 2, 6 weeks (BEFORE):

    Attached Files:

  14. #14 Apollonia, Oct 5, 2009
    Last edited by a moderator: Oct 5, 2009
    Group 3, 6 weeks, 9/30/09 AFTER Transfer into 3 Units:

    Unit 1: back left (Blue Apollo & Apollo 11) Unit 2: back right (Sugar Berry & Apollo 11) Unit 3: front (Sugar Blossoms & Blueberry):

    Group 3, Unit 1 AFTER transfer

    Group 3, Unit 2 AFTER transfer

    Group 3, Unit 3 AFTER transfer
  15. Most, a good 80% of the Blueberry seedlings I've sprouted show deformities such as variegated leaves & stunted growth ranging from moderate to severe. I know that comes with the territory when dealing with blue strains and especially DJ Short's famous Blueberry. I feel like I should pull them as they're hopeless, but I keep them b/c if I pulled the ones that were deformed it would leave me with only 2 plants at the most. I've heard that it can take a few tries with several packets of seeds to get a good blueberry mother. As of now, that is the strain that is most in danger of not producing a viable mother plant. The last photo is all the Blueberry seedlings as of 10/04/09 (6 weeks, 4 days old)

    Examples of the deformed leaves:

    Attached Files:

  16. Here is the layout of the strains in Group 3, first BEFORE the transfer from 2 units to 3:

    Unit 1 (Blue Apollo, Sugar Blossom, Apollo 11):





    A11 A11 A11 A11 A11


    Apollo 11 = A11
    Sugar Blossoms = SBL
    Blue Apollo = BA

    Unit 2 (Sugar Berry, Blueberry, Apollo 11):





    A11 A11 A11 A11 A11


    Apollo 11 = A11
    Blueberry = BB
    Sugar Berry = SB

    Key to Units AFTER transfer into 3 units:

    *Strain Key is same as above

    Unit 1 (Blue Apollo & Apollo 11):


    X X X X


    X X X X

    A11 A11 A11 A11 A11


    Unit 2 (Sugar Berry & Apollo 11):


    X X X X


    X X X X

    A11 A11 A11 A11 A11


    Unit 3 (Sugar Blossoms & Blueberry):






  17. A note on measuring Lux/Foot Candles with LEDs. When measuring what is the proper amount of light for plants using LEDs, your number will be necessarily lower than if you were measuring with a less restricted spectrum light source. To find the optimum level without any adverse effects but still providing maximum light energy, I placed my light meter at the top of the canopy of Group 1 where the leaves were thriving & healthy - any closer and they exhibit heat stress/light overload. As plants get older, it seems they are more able to withstand closer distances.

    The tops of the canopy of Group 1 produced a range of 8500 Lux - 9000 Lux. As they are the oldest they are able to tolerate more light.

    For Group 2 , the light distance was adjusted to be closer by a few inches and the light was made more even. Initial readings were in the range of 2000 Lux - 5000 Lux, decreasing as it neared the edges. New readings after adjustment were 3500's - 6000 Lux. The light was considerably improved in terms of evenness and intensity.

    Group 3, Units 1 & 2 had the Procyon height adjusted closer and had initial readings ranging from 1500 - 5000 Lux. After adjustment the range was high 2000 - 5000 Lux. Unit 3 as put under 3 T5 lights at a distance of 1 inch away.

    It's a lot of trial and error and not much consistency to go by as the plants do tolerate more light as they age. Your only guide is the approximate height given by the manufacturer (24" - 36" with the Procyons which has proven true) and watching for inverted leaves. However the values I have gathered seem to be where the plants absorb the most light without getting heat stressed.
  18. I found 2 reputable, solid sites currently offering C99 if anyone is interested:

    Marijuana Cannabis seeds at Hemp Depot Shipped Worldwide

    Actual C99 Cinderella Weed Seeds - Hanfsamen - Pot Seeds â€â€œ Feminized - Cannabis Strain â€â€œ Marihuanasamen â€â€œ Cannabissamen â€â€œ Hempseeds â€â€œ Hanfshop

    I've done business with Hemp Depot & I'm growing Joey Weed seeds so i can personally vouch for them and their products. If anyone cares, the C99 I'm growing now was available through Hemp Depot as a limited run offer from Kingdom seed company however all the other plants I'm growing are from Joey Weed and can be found at the link provided. The second website & company,

    Hempy & Actual Seeds appear to be legit w/many posts reporting having ordered successfully from them, also Actual Seeds gave an interested buyer excellent feedback about the Cinderella 99 they're offering.

    I'd say both are very solid options.
  19. Hey Appolonia, I only wonder if that wierd growth that your experiencing will grow out over time? I typically haven't had that issue YET (so what do I know), but you might want to give them a chance to straighten themselves out. Shure would be a shame to have to start all over again. I would hate to see that happen to ya. Whatever you decide though good luck and I'll be checking in from time to time. Thanks for being a pal too man/woman. LOL
    p.s. still think that avitar is outtasite! ME=V
  20. Hey Viper, back at you ;) and yes, for the record, I'm a girl.

    Sadly I think this is not a lighting issue and they haven't really grown at all where other healthy plants of the same age have shot up past them. If you haven't experienced it yet, I don't think you will. They didn't suddenly go all funky, they were pretty much that way from the get go. I'm thinking of tossing the hopeless cases tonight... I'm not to worried, it is what it is. I think the reason may be partially based on the fact that this is a Blueberry F2? Maybe next time I'll get it direct from DJ Short or something. Good to see you in the journal.

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