My Blue Dream are getting crazy leaf curl.....

Discussion in 'Sick Plants and Problems' started by Quiller, May 12, 2010.

  1. These are my Blue Dream cuttings at about 3 weeks.

    Running them in cocoa/gold and purlite.

    Flood and drain to reservoir system with 4 1000watt HPS
    General Hydroponics nutes, (Lucas Formula) PPM of 750 ph of 6.5 temp at 65-70 F
    In veg mode now...

    May be watering too much. this cocoa doesn't seem to drain very fast, first time using it.

    Have them at 2 minutes (how long it takes to drain from bottom) when lights come on
    2 minutes 6 hours later and another 2 minutes 6 hours after that.

    Have looked through sick plants pics and don't see any pics of leaves curling like this.

    Then a few others are showing the yellow tips and edges.

    Any ideas guys?

    Attached Files:

  2. Any ideas anyone?
  3. Whats Ur Room temperature? How is Ur Air Circulation ? Any heat Problems? Whats Ur Water run off PH ? Water pH 6.5 with a Coco Medium could be to High water should ph at 5.8 maybe a little lower depending on PH of water run off!
  4. Room temp is always around 75 F with fresh air pumped in from outside. I run a large charcoal filter for the exhaust air threw the air cooled lights.

    Not sure what the run off PH is. My res doesn't fluctuate much. It is 80 gallons and only needs adjusting after top off or add nutes.

    What should I watch for in the run off?
  5. If your rez isn't changing and it set at 6.5 i would try a bit lower like 5.8. Coco is a little bit alkaline so u would want to lower your pH a bit. The run off will tell you what Ur plant are actually sitting, so if you had a salt build up or Over fertilized you would be able to tell with the run off water. But you said you Rez doesn't change so that a good sign that Ur pH isn't changing. When you water to make sure that they are dry or have you just been watering no matter wet or Dry ? Maybe try and drop a water cycle or two make sure you are letting them dry out a little bit at least. If there sitting wet all the time it can lead to rot, mold, and pest.
  6. They do seem to hold water. I should have mixed a lot more purlite into the cocoa.

    They are always heavy. I'm going to drop a few water cycles and see what happens.

    But if I water less, then I am also feeding them less nutes. Will this stunt growth or make for a smaller yeild? Any way to solve this?

    I need to learn more about run off water. Should I fill a cup with run off and check the ppm and ph?
  7. #7 OneBadMan, May 13, 2010
    Last edited by a moderator: May 13, 2010
    No this will give u healthier plants, you been watering so much and Coco hold water so well you been letting them sit in a nute solution and coco mix. You want them to dry out some when they dry it the plant's/heat/light using the water/nutes. So by watering so much you are making them live in a Nute filled swamp. Ya i would drop a watering cycle or two and keep Ur eye on them you don't want them to dry Out completely. When i used Coco/ per-lite mix in my 4x8 table's. I use only have to water Once a week cause the coco would hold that much moisture. Now that was a Huge bed of coco Ur using pots so you will need to water more frequently. I bet Ur leave curl and yellow is due to Ur pots being over water. Yes test ur Run off see what come's out the bottom of the pot!
  8. The run off looks in the 5's for PH. I have the drip Ph tester. It is orange/red. So the pots are probably retaining nutes and building up.

    Should I flush all of them with plain water for 30 minutes?
  9. Yea, .. your in a Nutrient Lockout.

    Give me a min ta see whats up.

    What water they getting, R/O or Spring / Tap .. ?

    And, how much nutrients per day, do you give.

    We can get to the valuable pH in a sec.
  10. Cool, thanks for the help.....

    Tap water that comes out at 200 ppm. No filter yet, working on it.

    I was feeding them 3 times per day for 2-5 minutes with my res PPM of 700 - 1000.

    The cocoa is holding way too much water and I am thinking about carefully dumping out half of it and refilling with just purlite for more drainage.
  11. #11 OneBadMan, May 13, 2010
    Last edited by a moderator: May 13, 2010
    I wouldn't put more perlite just water less the coco hold the Nute's so there no need for you to water multiple time a Day.Flushing definitely would hurt I'm thinking Ur PH run off is low because of Ur nute''s building up like you said. I would Flush Real good till you get the PH to 5.8 then let them dry out a bit. They start out on Ur Nute's regiment again, but watch the water cycle to make sure you aren't over watering again. Also make sure you adjust Ur Rez Ph So that the Run off from Ur pot is Around 5.8-6.0.
  12. #12 AskEd, May 13, 2010
    Last edited by a moderator: May 13, 2010
    Howdy! Looks like you might have some P def setting in, it locks out at 6.0 and higher in hydro (coco plays by hydro rules), and that taco curling up top is possibly an early sign of mag def. P will yellow/brown the leaf edges then form necrotic patches in the middle leaf part. Just a guess on that for the yellowing.

    Coco hogs up calcium and can wreck havoc with mag uptake and cause some strange droopiness or curling before the normal yellowing. A hefty CalMag or epsom supplement usually takes care of this. With tap I normally add 5ml CalMag Plus/gal, RO I double it (I know it's a lot, but this is coco...).

    I haven't tried coco in a flood table, but handwatering a coco/perlite mix only needs water/nutes every 2 or 3 days. Runoff ph readings in coco or soiless mixes aren't reliable, it helps with soil but as long as you ph what goes in (5.5-5.8) you should not have ph probs with coco.

    Runoff ppm readings are very helpful though. If you pour distilled water in the pot, get the runoff ppm. 300 or more and it's time to flush, get it below 100 (very easy to do) to ensure no buildup, every 4 weeks should be plenty.

    If you adjust your ph you should be fine. The damage is done and won't heal, but new growth should be lovely. Hope this helps!
  13. Very helpful, thanks guys....

    Do you think I may be able to cut watering back to every 2-3 days?

    Ok, I need to get a Ph meter. Red , yellow or green is very acurate. lol
  14. oh, one more thing. I pretty much only have tap water on hand and it is 200 ppm by itself. How much is this affecting things?
  15. I think you can def cut feeding/watering down to days, especially with pure coco. I hand water mine, usually feeding nutes-water or nutes-nutes-water. With a table I'd say some lower PPM would be good, coco holds a LOT of nutes between waterings, unlike hydroton or other normal table mediums.
  16. On the Watering every 2-3 day Ur going to have to watch and see how fast it dries out.
    Oh and AskEd I would have to disagree with you on the PH of the run off doesn't matter! When using a rez System like he is your Run off is going to be what is used on the next water cycle. So if the Run off PH is Whacked Your next water cycle's PH will be whacked! Now if you where referring to the Single pots Run off it just easier to test the problem plants run off in stead of going off the whole Rez. By testing the problem plants run-off you can some time catch thing before it grows to be a further problem. But i guess it all matter of Opinion.

    Now for the 200ppm on ur tap water you real should get a simple filter system and it lower it but i dont think it should effect u too much. It just more Micro nute's. Also a Good Ph meter & Ppm Meter are a Must when doing Hydro!! Keep us updated!!
  17. Nothing wrong with disagreeing :) But I didn't say it didn't matter, I said it's unreliable in coco & soiless systems for checking ph. If you want to check the rez ph - why wouldn't you just check the rez after the cycle? You'll need to do it anyways even if you measure each pot's runoff. Either way, you need to adjust it before it goes to your plants next. Rez ph can be affected by lots of things, air, temperature, plant uptake, unstable tap, etc.

    There's good info in runoff - I don't disagree there, I use it all the time (with coco), but checking the ph of the runoff won't give accurate info on the ph of the coco (like it does with soil), just on the solution after it has passed through coco.

    Most coco is between 5.7-6.3, its acidic and works great with 5.8, anything over 6.0 and it can have issues - though I find it's pretty forgiving. To test the coco ph, you need to use a soil test kit or soak 1 part coco to 5 parts distilled and let it sit for an hour, then measure.

    I think adjusting the rez ph here will make a difference, 6.5 is too high and locks out Phosphorus, I see this quite a bit.

    Good luck!

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