"The Congress shall have Power To lay and collect Taxes, Duties, Imposts and Excises, to pay the Debts and provide for the common Defence and general Welfare of the United States; but all Duties, Imposts and Excises shall be uniform throughout the United States; To borrow money on the credit of the United States; To regulate Commerce with foreign Nations, and among the several States, and with the Indian Tribes; To establish an uniform Rule of Naturalization, and uniform Laws on the subject of Bankruptcies throughout the United States; To coin Money, regulate the Value thereof, and of foreign Coin, and fix the Standard of Weights and Measures; To provide for the Punishment of counterfeiting the Securities and current Coin of the United States To establish Post Offices and Post Roads; To promote the Progress of Science and useful Arts, by securing for limited Times to Authors and Inventors the exclusive Right to their respective Writings and Discoveries; To constitute Tribunals inferior to the supreme Court; To define and punish Piracies and Felonies committed on the high Seas, and Offenses against the Law of Nations; To declare War, grant Letters of Marque and Reprisal, and make Rules concerning Captures on Land and Water; To raise and support Armies, but no Appropriation of Money to that Use shall be for a longer Term than two Years; To provide and maintain a Navy; To make Rules for the Government and Regulation of the land and naval Forces; To provide for calling forth the Militia to execute the Laws of the Union, suppress Insurrections and repel Invasions; To provide for organizing, arming, and disciplining the Militia, and for governing such Part of them as may be employed in the Service of the United States, reserving to the States respectively, the Appointment of the Officers, and the Authority of training the Militia according to the discipline prescribed by Congress; To exercise exclusive Legislation in all Cases whatsoever, over such District (not exceeding ten Miles square) as may, by Cession of particular States, and the acceptance of Congress, become the Seat of the Government of the United States, and to exercise like Authority over all Places purchased by the Consent of the Legislature of the State in which the Same shall be, for the Erection of Forts, Magazines, Arsenals, dock-Yards, and other needful Buildings; And To make all Laws which shall be necessary and proper for carrying into Execution the foregoing Powers, and all other Powers vested by this Constitution in the Government of the United States, or in any Department or Officer thereof." Here are the poweres given to Congress in our constitution, where in this list does it say we can provide health insurance? So we get the fact that some people have been screwed over by health insurance companies. Guess what we don't care it's your problem, deal with it, don't get other people involved. The government isn't here to get involved with peoples' lives its here to make sure we don't get involved with others and to protect us when we do. (By the way the article I quoted you guys should read it it's pretty good)
That's cheating the law... why don't you just amend the Constitution like you're supposed to? We're not a Democracy...
I propose that if we're going to ignore the Constitution in order to make nationalized health care, let's also reinstate slavery.
I saw the infant mortality percentages two years ago, when WHO first released it (my mother works as a communications officer for the World Health Organisation). Well guess what, Brazil had less infant mortality than the U.S. Why do you think 25'000 people die of the FLU in America every year? Jesus fucking christ, when will you learn that the world does not revolve around YOU and just because you are healthy and happy and can pay for one-off doctors appointments... not everyone is the same fucking way. If you want the society you live in to be functioning in any way... think about others and their needs. They are not asking for deluxe hospital suites with plasma screens... just some basic healthcare so they do not DIE of strep throat!
Where have you been? It's happening all around you. NCHC | Facts About Healthcare - Health Insurance Costs Look at the part that I bolded. Do the math. That means that almost 50% of ALL the Bankruptcies filed in America in 2007, were filed by people who WERE INSURED, but still could not pay for their bills. So what exactly is the point of paying several hundred dollars a month for health insurance if you're still at risk of going bankrupt if you get sick? 1.5 million families losing their homes, EVERY YEAR. One in 16 Americans won't be able to change jobs because they will lose their insurance. How's that for options, aaronman? Those aren't epidemic numbers to you?
What makes you think a forum of stoners cares much for a society that demonizes us? As I've mentioned many many times, the incidence of death from curable things like the FLU has more to do with lack of education and socioeconomic status than anything else. Work on the root of the problem, which is poverty, unemployment, and lack of education, and you'll actually create a sustainable solution, not a band aid thats being pitched as a necessary long term solution. Instead, consider implementing short term, transitional measures that will help those that need it now while at the same time working towards the ultimate goal of having a universally educated, prosperous, healthy population. Did you read what you posted? It said cost is rising cuz ppl are not jumping on the insurance boat. And then the very next part says that people aren't jumping on the insurance boat because the cost is rising... What kind of fail cyclic logic is this? Chicken egg anyone? And for fucks sake, you need to recognize that bankruptcy and foreclosure can have a lot to do with bad investments and retarded spending habits on the part of individuals as well as a national fiscal policy and corporate media that encourage an overconsumptive, debt incurring population. That was the fucken whole point of the housing bubble. Interest rates were lowered to a point were people who normally couldn't afford homes could buy them. Then they act surprised when these same people can't make good on their mortgage. Have you ever walked into a bank or any other financial institution? Do you not see how their agents operate? They encourage bad investments from the average man because they end up reaping more when he fails than succeeds. The same type of people as the infamous car salesman who makes commission on sales regardless of whether the people they sell cars to can end up making all their payments on time or not. This combined with the credit boom of the 90s and 00s that encouraged spending money you don't have and your trying to blame bankruptcy and foreclosure primarily on health insurance?! I really don't understand how you think this reform would help... it says 80 percent of those that filed bankruptcy were insured, and they became bankrupt because of their medical costs. Well then, first, maybe insurance isn't the solution to paying medical bills people think it is, and second forcing everyone to go on insurance is going to cause more of this, rather than reduce it. And I hope you understand that most of the 46 million or so uninsured aren't the same group as these people, cuz they don't have assets to declare bankruptcy with nor do they own homes that can get foreclosed.
I don't want you to care about a "demonizing" society, I want you to care about poor people dying. And as for your idea of working on poverty and unemployment I agree it is a massive problem that should be dealt with.. but just let everybody die in the meantime while it takes you decades to repair an almost irreparable situation? Makes no sense to me.
Implementing 'reform' that actually prolongs these conditions is counterproductive and the only reason it's viewed as 'irreparable' is because that is what your told by the same system that seeks to maintain the status quo. Makes no sense to me. Should we only care about the poor when they start dying? It's lack of caring for them while their healthy that leads to their 'dying' condition. Rather, it's the social welfare programs that are supposed to help them to get out of horrid living conditions, or avert these conditions that actually results in their failure in the workforce, degradation in their health, high stress conditions, and pigeon holes them into the 'lower' class. So, in other words, you feel better, and get a good nights sleep believing you help them, while politicians feel better, and get a good nights sleep knowing they've fooled you into believing you help them.
I'm done arguing with you. You are firmly sticking to your beliefs, and me to mine... we can leave it at that.
If you put the worst and most negative spin on everything, and only look at the bad, you will see it that way. There are many examples of people who have been helped by welfare, but you continue to ignore them if it makes you sleep better knowing that you are poor because the government holds you down.
you think the government doesn't hold the poor down? if you wanna make a positive impact on the government you have to see how it operates, and it isn't one man but many special interest groups which control and improvise the laws to make profit. we have outrageous drug laws which put the poor in jail because it is poor people with low self esteem who resort to drugs in the first place. then when they are charged they are too poor to afford a lawyer, they get the worst one appointed to them, then they get typically harsher sentences than sex offenders. I was even watching a t.v. show when the 'crime scene investigators' were pissed because they couldn't lock a guy up on sex crimes cause it would be double jeopardy cause he was tried once but was happy because the drugs would actually put him away longer. How fucked up is this.... breeding our society to think a certain way through wide spread media entertainment. Then while the poor are in jails there are privately owned jails which help the state save money from building their own, because jails are the most costly residence to maintain and build, while they collect money for each prisoner because the state pays them. They never run out of prisoners and are always jam packed full because of all the petty drug crimes. But we'll pay 30k a year to feed them and house them, per inmate. They can't afford a college education and i'm considered 'wealthy' because my parents make 300k a year. I never had any family time because they grew up a very poor lifestyle and were kicked out with no financial aid at 18 while my mother a couple years after got pregnant and did schooling at night accumulating huge loans. They now successfully manage VP positions, both of their parents lived if not poverty level just above it barely. My grandmother would clean apartments for the tenant so she could get a cheaper board. Now i'm dropped out of high school because i got bad grades, never had any support from my family or even a relationship. They've been very busy and i lost the whole "family" aspect of traditional living. I've never had a serious conversation with them unless it was about me being depressed or something of that nature. But you think they owe you more money? It takes a lot of work to earn that money and i lost out on a lot for them to earn that money, i may never make that much in my life time but i can dream can't i? How am i ever going to beable to earn that or anymore while you tax them like they are rich and KEEP wanting to ADD more TAXES which THEY are RESPONSIBLE for, why? Why are they responsible for you? They've paid into programs their whole lives which they may never see a dime from, because the government knows best, now you want more than 100k a year from them, good logic. You can call me whatever you want, but i'll probably be getting kicked out soon and wont have health insurance, but people who think they are self entitled to programs which they can not afford and expect others to pay for them, are absurd.
I'm gonna go ahead and assume that I know more people on welfare than you and most other people on this forum, and therefore you enjoy talking out of your ass. Not to mention I have personally experienced the welfare system myself. But wtf would I know? I'm just an immigrant who doesn't know any better, and is too pessimistic to appreciate what he gets... So, I take it you give up because you realize 'your beliefs' are founded in misinformation, lack of information, lack of experience, and lack of logical reasoning... but hey, you got guilt trips and emotional appeals going for you!
im sorry but this and your other scary generalizations about how bad our healthcare is are just flat out bullshit.... i get great health care and know no one ive met in my whole life that had any problems getting care and access to the best machines and the largest number of those machines for health care. You can bitch all you want, but just wait and see if the government gets involved. THAT is happening every day too...
It still didn't show where they got those numbers from. Like any reliable statistic, it helps to see exactly how they got those numbers and where they came from. Like the famous quote says "There are lies, damned lies, and then there are statistics." Plus, without even delving into those issues, just like every other entitlement program, Obamas health care plan will skyrocket in costs way past what it is expected to initially cost. And how will this all be paid for? Inflation via the Federal Reserve, because Obama is just another politician who wants to keep his job, and I seriously doubt he will actually raise taxes/cut spending enough to be able to cover the rising cost of his program. Thusly, he will resort to using the Federal Reserve in order to print money, which causes inflation. This inflation hurts everyone, and most of all it hurts exactly the type of person Obamas plan is designed to help: poor folks who can't afford insurance. What little money they do have will be worthless thanks in part to how this program will be funded? Plus this program takes away rights from people like myself who have decent insurance by de-facto forcing me into Obamas plan. Yes, I realize that technically I have a choice, but realistically I do not have the money to pay the taxes and fees Obama will levy on me for having market health insurance. A huge chunk of the health care problem stems from the fact that we use health insurance to pay for EVERYTHING related to our health. Health insurance should cover things like cancer and other bad illnesses, not me getting a prescription or going to the doctors because I have the cold and need some cough syrup. Obamas plan does absolutely nothing to address this problem.
No I'm done arguing with you because you make statements like this. I have interned at the World Health Organization so my beliefs are not based on a lack of information or lack of experience, you tool.
If you were Medicare; would you rather spend $150 or $8,000? If you guessed $150, you are wrong! Medicare favors unifunctional wastes of money Hmm, I wonder why health care costs are spiraling out of control... hmm....
Look, I understand that all of you feel that health care is being taken in the wrong direction in America... and that it is neither cost-friendly nor beneficial with these new plans. But do some research and look at other countries, just understand how it helps them thrive! Brazil is a second world country with terrible social problems and the like, yet they have less infant mortality due to their health care... and it helps people prosper and feel like they are in a tight knit society that can help them. That is so, so important. Look at the incredible health care in Sweden... yes taxes are high, but why don't you compare people's general lifestyle with America's. People are healthier and happier... living in better conditions. Instead of shutting themselves off from being an active member in their community, everybody puts money into a risk pool to protect both themselves and the others around them. It's a safety net... it creates a sense of calm! Just because you disagree with Obama's initiatives does not mean health care is inherently evil. At the end of the day, a world without poverty is just not possible at this point in time. I understand that we should focus on the humongous social rifts that separate us and drag us down... yet we have to remember that we are still animals and hierarchy is not avoidable. We have to bring these gaps together as much as we can, but social hierarchy has existed since the beginning of time and we cannot blame all of our downfalls on poverty and inequality. Unfortunately these are things inhibit us, but at least as healthy citizens we can break through some of those borders with more ease. It's difficult to get yourself out of a financial rut if you are unhealthy and have no care... Whilst we all do our best to make the changes we need to bring people closer together, let's also offer everyone a fair chance at living healthily.
Our government doesn't care about making us healthy. They spend billions of dollars in subsidies trying to make us unhealthy. Look at our subsidies on food/agriculture. Do you think factory-farmed meat is good for you? How about milk from a cow? Also, universal health care will not make this country healthier. It will do the opposite. Relying on a government or an insurance company to pay for the majority of your health care is not the right solution. People need to take a more active role in their own personal health; otherwise, no amount of health care can truly help them.