The existence of a god, is highly ideal to many. Many (agnostics, possibillians, etc.) discuss the possibility of a god, but we are all forgetting something which is a textbook example of a dense compilation of dogmatic fucking bullshit. A long time ago, humans just like you and me looked around and didn't have a fucking clue what the hell was going on. So us humans, and our dimwitted instinct, decided that we don't need no fucking proof, we can figure this shit out all by ourselves. And this happend thousands, maybe hundreds of thousands of times again and again. Now think about how fundamental the idea of a god is, think about how reoccurring that idea is. It's because it is pure human nature to come to such a conclusion. But this instinctive belief is a fucking long shot people, why must we search for a god, why must we end our theorizing and insert the god factor where science can not explain, don't you know that someday it can, and maybe it will if you just have a little bit of ....faith? Maybe faith has been in the wrong hands this whole time, maybe faith can be logical, maybe it isn't just primitive assumptions based on redundancy, maybe this faith can be useful. Rather than restrict what we know, and what we will know, we need to wipe the slate clean: We, the human race, have no fucking earthly idea how the universe was created, or what it entails. We need to discover, not search, we need to reach out into the darkness. [ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oY59wZdCDo0]The Sagan Series (part 1) - NASA The Frontier Is Everywhere - YouTube[/ame]
faith is, by definition, believing wholeheartedly in something without any evidence or in the presence of contrary evidence. Faith is counterproductive in science. The last thing a good scientist should have is faith. That's what seperates science from religion. The religious have faith, where the scientific have skepticism.
I was sort of implying the trust factor or reliance, the word faith was just kind of an ironic bit...hence the "..." It was meant to question why their dogma deserves this faith. EDIT: I hate faith, don't get me wrong it is absolute crap. I hate it more than most things but it made sense to me.
IMO...... 'science-only' types of people are too quick to exclude the possibility that the CONCEPT..(not dogma)....of an Infinite Entity existing on a plane/dimension that we currently cannot measure can exist... I do not think scientific thought makes it contrary...or negates believing in that possibility....in other words.
I have absolutely no reason whatsoever to believe in an anthropomorphic deity The only reason that I have believed in a god during a certain period of time was because we had religion class in school and It fucking brainwashed me. (Such a great idea to fill 7 years old heads with fucked up stories of people that get crucified and who hang themselves)
Yes...you are referring to the dogmatic views you were exposed to... The 'deity' you refer to as being anthropomorphic....is not that at all....IT exists on a plane of being that we cannot tap into at our own will....It shows only what it wants....but that is a long post...a very long post...that people would only bring skepticism to....lol...I dont have that kind of time....this is not S & P anyway....my bad.
I like to think of the universe as a fractal and everything to be the result of a physical/mathematical necessity I also believe that in order for the universe to exist, conscience (such as us, for example, or anything that could be considered a subjective point of view) needs to exist so it can experience the universe, because if nothing could experience it, it would be as if it didn't exist but this is just my thoughts and I don't take them for granted, and I don't care if it's illogical, cause, well, just 'cause
tesselated... you are looking at what you have learned (science) and you are salvaging what you can of your belief. Your belief makes no sense, and it was an idea conceived with no proof. Don't assume anything about this universe.
I don't really understand how someone can take a superior position when it comes to early man such as "omg i am so much more intelligent i have science and early man had bones through nose and spirit worlds" Not trying to validate the existence of spirit worlds or primitive practices but i think it should be pretty obvious that if you have an understanding of science its not because you personally did anything that impressive. Most likely you had your parents/elders teach you to read/write and then you read about a lot of these concepts. Most likely experiences in early life determined how you felt about say a religion that seems to imply the love/justice of a divine creator...probably many were disappointing We have science because of early man...even if you put a human in the year 2070 but gave them none of the wealth of resources we have accumulated as a species they would probably be even at a greater disadvantage than those that believed in spirit worlds. I mean they would probably take many generations to develop even the most rudimentary language...if they were able to survive at all... I know evolution doesn't have a purpose but for rhetorical reasons man did not evolve to do science...he probably evolved to be an effective hunter(and gatherer) and hunting without ferocity or speed led us to do some neat stuff... a brain that is able to track prey, imagine the mind of the animal, predict actions, etc etc...(as you can tell i have only the most rudimentary understanding of primitive hunting) The point was that our science is just an offshoot of this early investigative thinking that allowed us to find prey (possibly.) So if you really wanted to make some good comparisons between early man and modern in my opinion its best to start there apologize for the rant...hope it makes some sense
As for the first bit.... I think I asserted the fact that we know nothing many times....actually i'm all about that. We know nothing, we are trying to find out. It's the theists who think they know everything, they just made it up. They assumed they could figure out the universe. We know nothing, we are specs. That second paragraph was annoying, distasteful, and totally irrelevant. I'll say again, I don't know as much about science as others, but I have massive appreciation for it and I understand it's value. God, did you even understand what I wrote? It seems as if you didn't. I'm trying to say that the idea of a god may or may not be true, but it's highly unlikely, and that we need to not stop when we don't have answers, we need to keep looking.
So you're saying that early man DIDN'T bend over, reach up into their assholes and pull out god? Do you understand the dent theism has made on our race? Not to get off topic but they conceived these ideas because they instinctively wanted answers, so the made them up.
I apologize, i may have veered from your OP quite a bit. Just to make sure I didn't repeat the same mistake I reread the OP twice. I'm sorry if the second paragraph offended you, I was just pointing out that if we can use science its probably because we evolved the necessary mental faculties which were probably originally used for tasks such as gathering food...remembering which plants are poisonous/medicinal/food and for the mental task of tracking prey that run a lot faster than you do. When i first read your post I first got the impression that the best our primitive faculty could do was make stuff up. I do think there is a great tendency to personify our environment and to think that our environment was our ancestor even a paternal or maternal figure like god seems kinda logical. I don't know the specifics but there is a part of your brain called the parietal lobe. This part of your brain, when its active, allows you to feel located within your body/head, if you meditated or took some drug and your parietal lobe decreased in activity you'd feel as if the whole of your environment was intimately a part of you, as much as any part of your body I"m sorry if I fucked up interpreting your post. I do wonder what questions you'd like science to answer and what will you do when you find them?
I don't think i have the imagination mental processing to possibly ever calculate the trillions of decisions that would varied should man never have had any type of faith. Can you honestly really say you can simulate all of those world events in your head? I'm not defending theism here i'm just not educated enough or smart enough to be able to theorize on what the possible events would have been...
Well i'm pretty well connected with some physicists at a couple of institutes, (i'm quite an idiot for majoring in current affairs, every day I regret it) but it really is a dream of mine to somehow be on the front lines of space exploration. People like ray kurzweil are making the idea of this seem more and more plausible every day. (the idea of life being much longer, the health risks he is eliminating, etc.) I just am very excited for what is to come, that's all.
No i am not denying that God is product of fiction, but i don't think that God was produced solely because man looked up into space and didn't have an answer. There are anthopological reasons behind religion and its benefits to early man. Of course in a more perfect world, yes, by now it would be nice for people to understand that we have long out developed those reasons - So if i could edit your quote i would say, 'Man isn't retarded for inventing God, he is retarded for still believing in him'
That may be so....but I have had some rather......exceptional experiences... in that area....so there has been nothing assumed....but proven over and over and over...(to me) that this reality is much more than we are allowed to experience on a daily basis....in distinct ways. My belief makes sense to me.... and I do not impose it on others...I only share my point of view. Operating in that belief has made me grow in ways that I am nothing but proud of....What more can you ask from Life personally? *Also....on a different note....why would you engage in science.....if you already knew everything there is to know....? That is the very thing that can show you more possibilities that Man ever thought possible.