You mean the same patriot act Obama has renewed like 5 times while pretending to support reforms of it?
[quote name="Uncle_Meat420" post="19400380" timestamp="1390605128"]You mean the same patriot act Obama has renewed like 5 times while pretending to support reforms of it?[/quote]yep that's the onebat mobile
One is government intrusion and control but violates the bill of rights, the other is just government intrusion and control. Patriot Act is one of the worst legislation pieces in American history.
unfortunately this is what the majority is interested in.. the same majority that votes people into office year after year.. sickening but true.
Doesn't the bill of rights limit government intrusion and control? Comparing ACA to patriot act and saying it's not as bad doesn't make what Obama did any better does it? If someone punched you in the face, then I came along and punched you in the stomach would you still feel I assaulted you? Or would you be like at least I didn't get punched in the face. bat mobile
Yup, partisan politics is the most worthless waste of time I can think of. I gradually started weaning myself from it in the past 15 years or so. I feel so much better just sitting back and watching people make fools of themselves. I've noticed that hardcore partisans will, sooner or later, end up defending the indefensible. It happens because when "their guy" does "X" they will defend it til the last dog is hung. But if the "other guy" does it, they will turn on a dime and trash him endlessly. It's the most mindless thing I can think of. Sent from Your Grandmother's Bedroom
Which is Obama since he signed the current iteration. If Obama didn't sign the Patriot Act it would not be law currently\\ That's like blaming whoever was president when the CSA was put in place and not Ronald Reagan and others for ramping up the drug war, which is exactly what Obama has done with the Patriot Act and other "national security" BS
That was the original idea, but as we now know, government cannot be restrained by a piece of paper. As I believe Lysander Spooner said, paraphrased: "The big government we have today is because it was authorized by the Constitution, or because the Constitution was powerless to prevent it." Sent from Your Grandmother's Bedroom
535 members of Congress have their say, but then one man (the POTUS) has right to veto or pass it. Patriot Act is still more on Bush's shoulders.
[quote name="RippedMonk" post="19400804" timestamp="1390609724"]535 members of Congress have their say, but then one man (the POTUS) has right to veto or pass it. Patriot Act is still more on Bush's shoulders. [/quote] but you don't say the same for bush? 535 members then too you knowbat mobile
This is why I am a anocap. The Constitution has proven one thing without a doubt and that is that government cannot be limited. bat mobile
The problem with blaming Bush or past leaders for shit current leaders still support is that eventually non of our current leaders will be accountable for shit their government is doing, instead all the blame will rest on dead old guys. Just sayin without Obama's signature the Patriot Act would not currently be law.
Beiber-mania!!!! Wooo Hoooo! Okay both Bush and Obama are bad. Obama did push the ACA down our throats with no bi-partisan support, atleast when bush went to war in Iraq he didn't do it unilaterally. Yes, the war was about oil, I don't blame him. He had to protect our sovereignty and economy, and Saddam was a threat to that... It's sad to say but when it comes to our country or the middle east, I choose US! And Bush did pass the patriot act as well... And under both presidents that's just all kinds of fucked up!
Raider, you are lost again man, a bit confused. What I have been saying is the original bill should have been shut down due to constitutional right violations from the beginning. It's very easy to keep a horrible law in effect and get away with it. Obama is far from innocent for not repealing it and voting for it to begin with. However, it should have been shut down from the beginning. I'm not quite sure why this is even being argued. I hate Obama slightly less than Bush, that's my opinion, it's not going to change. That's all I was ever really saying. The blame lies on all of them. You two have started an argument over me simply saying I hate Bush a tiny bit more than Obama. I put primary blame on the politicians in power when a horrible bill is passed. Thinking I am not blaming Obama for keeping unjust laws active is false.
And yet it has limited government in varying capacities for over two hundred years. Because government gets away with shitting on the constitution once in awhile, doesn't make the Constitution or government an automatic failure.
[quote name="RippedMonk" post="19401427" timestamp="1390616274"]Raider, you are lost again man, a bit confused. What I have been saying is the original bill should have been shut down due to constitutional right violations from the beginning. It's very easy to keep a horrible law in effect and get away with it. Obama is far from innocent for not repealing it and voting for it to begin with. However, it should have been shut down from the beginning. I'm not quite sure why this is even being argued. I hate Obama slightly less than Bush, that's my opinion, it's not going to change. That's all I was ever really saying.The blame lies on all of them. You two have started an argument over me simply saying I hate Bush a tiny bit more than Obama. I put primary blame on the politicians in power when a horrible bill is passed. Thinking I am not blaming Obama for keeping unjust laws active is false. [/quote] I thought you were giving Obama a out by saying that Congress voted on it that's all. And not saying the same about bush. I agree that they both suck. Equallybat mobile
Why is CNN listed? They stopped doing "news" a long time ago. Is townhall an actual publication or do you mean town hall meetings?