http://www.ncpa.org/pub/ba792 Can we please stop basing our economic policy on teh feels and instead rely on actual economic analysis?Sent from my SCH-I535 using Grasscity Forum mobile app
No. The purpose of raising the minimum wage isn't to "help poor people". The strongest argument for raising the minimum wage is to strengthen the middle class. A strong middle class means a stronger economy. Why is this a bad thing? It means more middle class families with more disposable income, which means buying new cars, new houses, paying for their kids' college educations, home improvements, start small businesses, and just generally putting more money into the economy.
Except in reality mininum wage destroys the middle class Sent from my LG-E739 using Grasscity Forum mobile app
[quote name="Penelope420" post="19364140" timestamp="1390072370"]No. The purpose of raising the minimum wage isn't to "help poor people". The strongest argument for raising the minimum wage is to strengthen the middle class. A strong middle class means a stronger economy.Why is this a bad thing? It means more middle class families with more disposable income, which means buying new cars, new houses, paying for their kids' college educations, home improvements, start small businesses, and just generally putting more money into the economy.[/quote] it could be a bad thing because that money is diverted from savers to spenders. Spenders , the demand side of economics which is important does not grow a economy it only sustains it at best. Savers, supply side are the one's who invest in capital to produce more for the masses which in turn leads to more of a real middle class. bat mobile
You statists really need to get your stories straight. http://www.theguardian.com/world/2013/dec/04/obama-support-minimum-wage-inequality-speech "The president specifically mentioned fast-food workers – alongside nurses and retail workers – in the speech, describing them as people who "work their tails off and are still living at or barely above poverty". "That's why it's well past the time to raise a minimum wage that, in real terms right now, is below where it was when Harry Truman was in office."
If the argument is so strong, then you should be able to make it. Enlighten us: how does raising the minimum wage strengthen the middle class?
"A whopping 63.2 percent of workers who would gain were second or even third earners living in households with incomes equal to twice the poverty line or more. Some 42.3 percent of workers who would gain were second or even third earners who live in households that have incomes equal to three times the poverty line or more." A family of three with an income level of "three times the poverty line" is still earning less than $60K a year, which is squarely in the middle class. Even when estimated job losses are factored in: "The net benefit to households containing low-wage workers would be $3.56 billion per month." I'm sure the middle class would benefit from an additional $3.5 billion being pumped into the economy every month. This isn't money that's going to sit in investment funds. It's money that middle class families will spend on everything I listed above: new cars, houses, clothing, home improvements, college, entertainment, etc.
Of course the NCPA would come to such a conclusion, what with funding from the likes of the Koch Brothers and a strong partisan bias. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_Center_for_Policy_Analysis
my views on minimum wages has changed a little recently, probably because my view on currency has changed but anyway.... a small change in minimum will only hurt part time workers hours and increase the cost of shit you actually need (food, toilet paper, etc) i say raise minimum wage to $500/hour, everyone goes back to learning skills and working on the barter system...and we move away from this shitty materialistic lifestyle we live that breeds violence and depression. BOOM! unrealistic fix for the win!
Thats no argument at all. You just said people will have more money to spend on crap. This is also funny: Even when estimated job losses are factored in: Lol, so even when all these shitty things happen, at least people have more money to spend on crap, even if unemployment goes up. If spending is the answer, then why is American economy still doing terrible.
Last time I saw this many peopld argue over topics they know nothing about, I was watching the presidential debate
Food, shelter, transportation, education, clothing, entertainment.... is all crap? Please enlighten us, and tell us how you spend your money... from atop your pillar of judgement. What IS good for the economy, if people spending money is not? Why do people have jobs in the first place, if not to buy all that "crap"?
But when all these things cost more to coincide with the higher wages employers are paying their employees how does that help? Raising the minimum wage will hurt small businesses, employees of those businesses, and consumers.
[quote name="Penelope420" post="19379634" timestamp="1390309597"]"A whopping 63.2 percent of workers who would gain were second or even third earners living in households with incomes equal to twice the poverty line or more.Some 42.3 percent of workers who would gain were second or even third earners who live in households that have incomes equal to three times the poverty line or more."A family of three with an income level of "three times the poverty line" is still earning less than $60K a year, which is squarely in the middle class.Even when estimated job losses are factored in:"The net benefit to households containing low-wage workers would be $3.56 billion per month."I'm sure the middle class would benefit from an additional $3.5 billion being pumped into the economy every month. This isn't money that's going to sit in investment funds. It's money that middle class families will spend on everything I listed above: new cars, houses, clothing, home improvements, college, entertainment, etc.[/quote] dud you see my response pen?bat mobile
[quote name="STilladelph" post="19380292" timestamp="1390321746"]Last time I saw this many peopld argue over topics they know nothing about, I was watching the presidential debate[/quote] last time I read your post I thought you were Krugmanbat mobile
Lol well now your just expanding your definition from what you previously said. And sorry but you still havent told me why spending all that money is going to help the economy out. I at least made a comparison to what the US government does, and to why just spending money doesnt work. But I will say I dont think increased unemployment (which you said) is for favorable over 3.5 more billion to be spent by the consumer and things they probably dont need, like new cars, new houses, new clothes, entertainment, college (which is risky and can overload young people with debt). Minimum wage is simply allowing some to spend more at the expense of others. But like I already said, you still havent made your argument. The closet thing you said was "I'm sure the middle class would benefit from an additional $3.5 billion being pumped into the economy every month." Really, how sure are you? Is that money worth unemployment going up by hundreds of thousands, to millions (from OP)?
Productivity is up and profits are up, but wages are down. If there was a better balance* between the "savers and the spenders", we would probably have a healthier economy. It's common sense - I don't need to be an expert in economics to understand this (unlike everyone here, apparently) *By balance, I do not mean that the minimum wage should be raised to an unsustainable point. While businesses can't stay in business if their labor costs are too high, they also can't stay in business if fewer people are buying their goods/services.
"PROBABLY" is the key word here! But okay. If you raise the minimum wage to $15 per hour, what about the people that are making $15 per hour right now? Would they have to be getting paid $22 an hour to offset the wages that were raised on the people with no experience. Take a regular construction job for instance. If an employee employs master contractors and they max out at $20 and hires "hands" at $8 is it fair that someone with no experience will make the same as someone with say 7 years experience? How do they offset that? Raise the wages on all their employees while bidding jobs at the same price as they were before the wage increase? It's not logical. It sounds good, sure give people more money and have it not effect small businesses negatively, that my friend is wishful thinking!