Mind over Matter

Discussion in 'Philosophy' started by Chronic777, Jun 5, 2009.

  1. The intensity of mental vibration influences what form the matter takes

    We are Aware of the most sublte vibration inside us

    "I" is the first movement, the most subtle vibration, of what form is "I"?

  2. Good question

    I think that "I" is neither or anything apart from the normal bodily functions, it's a process and product of it, and it is not apart or outside of it.

    When you throw a ball, it is not your lungs throwing , or the blood rushing to pump your muscles, or the cells moving, or even the neurons fired in your brain causing you to perform that action, it is the entire process as a whole.

    Consciousness is the process, by product and result of physical processes in play...

    If consciousness (the mind) exists independently of the physical (the brain),then one must explain how it is possible for the two distinct properties to influence and interact with one another.
  3. No, if one makes said assumption, one must accept necessary conclusion regardless of explanation or lack thereof.
  4. What cannot be reproduced by science.

    Something that is qualitative, not quantitative.

    Something that cannot be put into an equation.
  5. The Mind is Matter.

    "I" is an illusion of control... I am the Lung, the Ball, the Gravity, and the Process.
  6. edit: nvm.
    i have no idea what the subject of the thread is. i'm confused. :/

  7. If one accepts conclusions from assumptions or notions that are pertaining to the physical along with its processes without any validation, explanation or falsifiable means by which the said statement can be proved true, one would only be doing so out of a prior engagement to wish to believe in it, thus displaying the appropriateness for the support of it in the absence of evidence.

  8. I disagree. The desire for proof/validation/falsification/etc. stems from a belief that there is a "right" way to understand being (and if you could only just get it...). Could you prove your way is the right one?
  9. #9 g0pher, Jun 7, 2009
    Last edited by a moderator: Jun 7, 2009

    No, i could not, but i could try to falsify it, so i could learn from that and build upon which i previously held as true. We cannot actually have absolute certainty, that is impossible and would be an argument of pragmaticsm vs absolutes.

    Now, on that note, consider this:

    -I observe that Y follows X on a number of occasions
    -On the basis of this i put forward the hypothesis that X is the cause of Y
    -I make further tests, and on each occasion Y follows X
    -I therefore formulate a law that X is the cause of Y, which implies that Y will always follow X

    Now, if you come along and say that X follows Y because you believe it, or because you choose to see it that way without providing evidence, your claim would be insignificant to the law which has been proven true by my observational data, you have to prove the law false first before your statement can be taken seriously.

    When you believe things without evidence, you are left with no way to actually judge how things really are.

    But, each of us can choose between a magical view of the universe, or a what you see is what you get kinda version.

    Its up to the individual which one they choose.

  10. Since you love proofs and laws, I'll put you up to the test then:

    Prove this is the crucial choice: "each of us can choose between a magical view of the universe, or a what you see is what you get kinda version."

  11. The imperitive of Choice can be illustrated in the story below:

    A man stands off the edge of a cliff - below there are rocks and boulders. He understands the laws of gravity. However because of a strong feeling within his gut that he's just grown invisible magic wings which he can use to fly to the horizon, he jumps.. plummeting 200 feet to his death.

    What happened? He chose to believe in a magical universe.

  12. What happened? You used an anecdote in a failed attempt to undermine anecdotal communication.

  13. :confused:

  14. Was your illustration the proof?
  15. It was an illustration, illustrations illustrate a point. What you are looking for is evidence for a statement - of which obviously you wont find, however, in the absence of evidence there is logic and reason.

    These are the best tools to determine how the universe really works, they have been extraordinary in science, engineering, medicine and in your daily life. Its the standard you expect in dealing with the real world; you expect doctors to use the latest medicine, and engineers to use empirical data when building bridges.

    Why should anything else be used for examining external reality or physical phenomena?
  16. #16 bkadoctaj, Jun 7, 2009
    Last edited by a moderator: Jun 7, 2009
    Hmm... maybe because you always have your heart, but you don't always have concepts that function?

    How was that empiricism when you were a baby?


    Science is about conquering the truth.

    Intuition is accepting the truth.

  17. Is "your heart" what you mean for logic/reason? And what concepts dont always function?

    you didnt even yet know right from wrong when you were that small
  18. The heart is the core of being. Logic and reason are labels. Different people use what you might call the same "logic" in different ways. Really it comes down to who you are, and who you are is often illustrated by what you do.

    A label for something doesn't make the something exist. Just as something existing doesn't mean it has a corresponding label.

    You wouldn't know it was "right" to have right and wrong unless you were taught by someone else who at a young age was also taught that.
  19. #19 g0pher, Jun 7, 2009
    Last edited by a moderator: Jun 7, 2009
    Ok here's a couple of question for you:

    How does your mind interact with your body if it is a separate entity? Is there a mind/body duality or is it a ghost in the machine, or something else?

  20. How separate is separate man? (btw good questions.) It's the same as saying: how do light and dark interact? I don't know man, but I can tell you that if you stand in front of light, there will be darkness behind you.

    I see no duality when transcending concepts. I simply am. It's as simple as, hmm... I'm here now. All else is really momentary pleasure for the ego. But what goes up must come down.

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