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Max Efficiency Guide (Don't waste any more weed)

Discussion in 'Apprentice Marijuana Consumption' started by CannabisScience, Aug 24, 2012.

  1. THC - Tetrahydrocannabinol, CBD - Cannabidiol and CNB - Cannabinol Exsist all within Marijuana, and are the key elements containing cannabinoids, which are the microscopic things that attach to recepters in your brain getting you high.
    Here are the temperatures for activating these key elements.
    At 50C (122F) THC-Acid decarboxylates as the water molecule held in the carbonate form evaporates. This activates the THC.
    At 66C (150F) Cannabidiol (CBD) melts and starts to evaporate.
    At 185C (365F) Cannibinol (CBN) boils.
    At 200C (392F) THC boils. Clear vapor from a vaporizer.
    500-700C (932-1292F) Is the combustion temperature for marijuana.
    From this alone, we can see, that weed does not have to be on fire, (combustion process) for the THC/CBD/CNB to be doing its job.
    At the temperatures required for combustion, or to have a cherry going,
    500-700C The key elements are being overheated and their chemical compounds are breaking down.
    So, this evidence suggest that when you light up a blunt, or joint, or get cherry going in your bong bowl, you are wasting/destroying valuable THC.
    When you light a blunt, the cherry burns slowly towards the vaccume, which is your lungs, the cherry of the blunt, (combusting weed, embers at the end)
    is not what is getting you high, heat from the cherry is heating
    but not combusting the weed behind the cherry to the temperatures needed to activate the thc.

    So, to be more THC Effecient, one should try and to burn Joint/Blunt slowly, and knock large amounts of the cherry, leaving a small amount burning, just enough to Activate the weed behind it. This theory also proves that blunts get you higher than rolling papers.
    The Evidence: Tobacco, which is found in blunt wraps, burns slower, and at a lower consistent temperature, than the gums found in rolling paper. A lower temperature, with a slower burn means less of the weed is combusting, which means less THC waste. Joints burn too fast and too hot, so i recommend only using them when you dont have a blunt available and when you not home where you can use glass peices.

    But this same concept applies to bowls, and bongs....
    Holding a lighter on the bowl of a bong or pipe, is just wasting weed, because you are combusting the whole bowl, you may seem like it gets you higher, but its just a head rush from a large amount of THC. But it will fade fast, and you will notice the high is not consistent.
    The flame of a bic lighter, burns at 1970C
    That is far beyond the MAX required to activate cannabinoids (200C)
    So buy a soldering iron with adjustable temperature, and use at 180C
    Or Buy a vaporizer, which is the same concept, only heating the weed to a maximum required temperature.

    When baking edibles, brownies, cookies, etc, the baking temperature is normally 350F, which is around 180C, which is perfect. And when eating marijuana certain forms of THC which cannot be acquired through smoking are activated in the digestion process. So edibles are nearly 100% Efficient. But best of all, they keep you high for a long time, i have been stoned all day off a couple brownies. With the bong, i have to smoke repeatedly throughout the day. 7 grams of weed (Quarter Ounce) Goes a long way in a batch of 12 Brownies.

    Smoking weed, is the least efficient form of use, invest in some tools to help
    conserve and make the best of what you have, or bake it and eat it instead as a much cheaper solution.
    • Like Like x 1
  2. I light my weed with my hemp wick, never get that nasty ass butane taste. I also move bud around the bowl with a poker, by the time I'm done milking my bong the entire bowl is black and the smoke is thick and white...I'm gone for days with a hit like this :bongin:

    But vape is a nice clean high, I only vape when I don't want to get the bongs out, I hardly ever vape.
  3. I enjoy the smooth hits of bongs, and im glad to know the are alot of people using Hemp wick and other efficient ways. When using fire to heat weed, if you want to get more out of your bud, rather than touching the fire to the weed, hold it just close enough to heat the weed.
  4. I need a joint paper with a built in thermometer printed right on the side.
    • Like Like x 2

  5. This could be done by using heat sensitive colour changing paper
  6. I don't understand this at all, if you smoke out of a bong what are you wasting? All of the THC is in the smoke and that goes right to your lungs? I don't see how smoking makes it disappear

  7. Well, your concept is correct, but its like leaving a pie in the oven for a few hours past the correct time. The pie is going to be black, ruined, and will not due its purpose..... (Taste good) - It is still there, but is it any good? THC can be overheated, to the point where cannabinoids (the things that get you high) start to incinerate or undergo a chemical change, into carbon. Where they are no longer good.

  8. Or you can think of it like this, If you compare the high of a bong to a vaporizer they are two different things, people prefer the bong for a reason obviously because im sure more people smoke than vaporize and a lot of people will say hitting a bong gets you higher than a vaporizer which might be true but I guess because the bong has higher concentrations per hit (that's why vaporizer bowls last longer). But also, bongs give a different kind of high than vaporizers but the bong high is more of a crazy high than a clear, mind high like a vaporizer provides but they both get you an equal level high or else everybody would have bought vaporizers by now... So it's either because they both just have a different CBD/THC output or the vaporizer is missing some components that a bong has
  9. whoa whoa whoa, this is a bit much. Just vape or use one hitters. Didn't need a page of info!!

  10. It's for those who want to learn and can understand the science behind it.

  11. On a scientific level, your brain is receiving more cannabinoids from Eating edibles or vaporizing (or other form of non combustion heating)
    .... Than it does from smoke intake from a combustion process.
  12. Oh god punctuation. Sorry, but if your argument isn't even close to grammatically correct than I can't consider it viable.
  13. #13 BadKittySmiles, Aug 25, 2012
    Last edited by a moderator: Aug 25, 2012
    It's true, the hotter your flame or heat source, the more your potent material degrades and deteriorates before
    it can even reach your lungs. :eek: :(

    The way to preserve the most potency, would be to make edibles..

    But that is an intimidating concept for most average tokers, because they often don't feel confidant they can make edibles
    properly! And the quality of any edible relies on the precision during processing.

    There are many 'old-fashioned', and less efficient (but all-too-common) recipes floating around. :(

    And if you screw up making your edibles, and barely catch a buzz.... then you'd have been better off just smoking the
    stuff. :p

    But if you make them properly, you can produce the least amount of waste, and deliver the most potency to your system! :yay:

    With edibles, you can get a stronger, longer-lasting sensation from less material, than you'd usually smoke or vape! :hello:

    This is because once vaporization is approached or initiated, the amount of active material completely destroyed can
    increase to as much as 30% or more, leaving behind not even the byproducts of degradation (primarily it is THC which
    is effected at such temperatures, where it is one of the more 'heat sensitive' of the major cannabinoids and becomes vapor
    much earlier for instance than CBD, CBG, CBC; THC has a flashpoint of 300.2 F).

    But vaping produces a fraction of the waste when compared to combustion, which destroys around a minimum of 50%
    of your potency... those using lighters are degrading more potency with their first puff, when they start their bowls, than
    those who use hemp wicks or ceramic soldering irons for instance. People who vape properly conserve even more.

    What remains beyond the destroyed percentage, in either case, is a mixture of residual cannabinoids including THC
    and its degraded byproducts (primarily CBN).

    The higher the temperature, the more material becomes destroyed... it's why when fully combusting, or smoking your
    material, you can only idealistically hope to receive and benefit from roughly half the potency your cannabis once contained,
    or less.

    We know much of this, primarily because of the differences between the highly accurate Liquid Chromatography,
    and the much less accurate Gas Chromatography.

    When analyzing potency content using GC(gas ch.), the end result measurement is reduced by a MINIMUM of 30%,
    and by as much as 50% of the actual content of that sample, due to the material that is destroyed as the temperature is
    slowly increased, to release the 'gas' that is analyzed.

    LC is performed at temperatures far below the vape point, and when the same material is analyzed both ways, using
    GC and LC, the LC results indicate a higher total THC/A reading by a minimum of 30%, and up to 50% under most
    normal GC conditions, depending on the calibration of the GC unit/equipment.

    (The lowest temperature GC operates on is based on the vaporization of the elements being tested, and the
    temperature used varies, depending on the calibration and settings of the equipment used; some analyze chemicals and
    metals with higher melting/flash points, for instance when performing a contaminant analysis, and as such,
    they require higher temperatures in order to produce a reading.)

    LC is considered the most accurate method for determining the actual contents, potency-wise, because it displays
    what is actually contained in raw cannabis AND ready-to-eat edible products; it lets you know exactly what you're
    putting into your system.


    When making canna oil and edibles, you should never need to even approach the vaporization or flashpoints of any of
    your primary cannabinoids... even when baking a pan of brownies at a whopping 350 - 360 F, the interior of the batter
    only reaches about 170 F by the time they've finished baking, and the exterior or 'crust' (buffered by the interior) only
    reaches approximately 280 F. [​IMG]

    Just know your recipe, and the point when it's safest to add your oil (for instance with a hard canna candy, you add your
    oil after the boil, while the temperature is falling), and you'll be golden... and a lot toastier than you'd have been, had you
    smoked or vaped that herb :D





    But back to smoking and vaping... some people just prefer the sensations provided by smoking, because it tends to deliver
    more material all at once, than a vape.. and the rate at which a substance is delivered to the system, can regulate
    and enhance the response!

    It's why people who smoke bongs regularly, often don't seem to get very buzzed when forced to pace themselves and
    smoke the same or even a larger amount of herb, from a dry bowl... slow and gradual delivery, reduces the impact
    of the sensations provided.

    When vaping, you're also being provided a staggering array of cannabinoids.. the earliest, or those with the lowest
    flashpoints, are delivered faster and earlier, than those cannabinoids that are more temperature tolerant..

    When they are delivered in sequence, and separately, rather than 'all together', this also mediates the effects provided.

    For fun...

    Cannabinoid Flashpoints:

    tetrahydrocannabivarin (THCV)
    Flash Point: 137.6 C (279.68 F)

    delta-8-tetrahydrocannabinol (delta-8-THC)
    Flash Point: 144.5 C (292.10 F)

    delta-9-tetrahydrocannabinol (THC)
    Flash Point: 149.3 C (300.74 F)

    cannabichromene (CBC)
    Flash Point: 174.2 C (345.56 F)

    cannabidiol (CBD)
    Flash Point: 206.3 C (403.34 F)

    cannabigerol (CBG)
    Flash Point: 207.2 C (404.96 F)

    cannabinol (CBN)
    Flash Point: 212.7 C (414.86 F)

    This is also why the vape high is often more 'up' and energetic, compared to smoking... when vaping people are often
    consuming a higher ratio of THC, and less of the sedative, sensation-regulating CBG and CBN.

    And finally there's the 'pleasure factor', which is somewhat similar to the placebo effect...

    If you enjoy what you're doing (the method of use) enough, it can sometimes work better than other, usually 'better' or
    more efficient methods.

    Your body chemistry helps here by providing you with 'happy/excitement chemicals' (ie. serotonin, endorphins, adrenaline/
    epinephrine etc.), and when these combine with cannabinoids, they can enhance your experience. :)

    Long story short... (TL;DR :p )

    If you like to combust, and you're looking to enhance your experience and the sensations provided by your herb, try
    to keep the temps low enough that you degrade the least amount of material, while still high enough not to effect the speed
    at which you like to smoke. If cornering bowls is your preference, all the better, but again that's not every toker's preference.
    In the case of combustion, a hemp wick, soldering iron or glass wand can all be used, for exponential improvements,
    over the common bic lighter. :)

    For vaping improvements, just try altering your temps and the coarseness of your grind... you may find that you like more
    THC and less of the mediating effects of the temperature-resilient cannabinoids, so a lower temp may be best for you.
    And if you're looking for something closer to that narcotic 'bong stone' when using your vape, try to increase your temps to
    just below the point of combustion with your vape unit. And a fine grind, will expose the most surface area to your
    heat source than a coarse-thick grind.

    Sorry for the long post... hope it helps! Good luck, and have fun! :wave:
    • Like Like x 2
  14. Holy mother of god that's a detailed post.
  15. [quote name='"chincomatic"']

    Oh god punctuation. Sorry, but if your argument isn't even close to grammatically correct than I can't consider it viable.[/quote]

    If you don't mind me saying I think that's a bit harsh. Even if he doesn't have a strong vocabulary (hypothetically) it wouldn't quite mean he's not intelligent enough to have a sound opinion. I'm just saying there are plenty of bright people who can't even read.
    • Like Like x 1
  16. This thread is filled with great information.
  17. I think you mean "Oh god, punctuation". Even so, people can make valid points while making grammatical errors.
  18. I ground up .5g of some sour og, mixed with coconut oil, and a little soy lecithin, 325 for 25 min and I get destroyed. I have been smoking for 15 years and consuming edibles for about 3 years, with tons of research and trial and error. Your method may be more effective for a full extraction. The reality is most people don't have access to ounces of mj and they may not have 4-6 hours either. I appreciate all of the info you post but I find that 325 F for 25 min in a toaster oven without a decarb sends me to the moon. I use ir temperature gun and an oven thermometer to make sure the temp doesn't go over 340-350. Works for me and all of my friends and you only need a joints worth.
  19. This is a great thread
  20. Jk.  Nice post OP.

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