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Discussion in 'Philosophy' started by Smith420, Feb 19, 2009.
(nice verse quotes/reasoning guys, we did the Lord and his instruments justice)
This may look long but if you want to know the truth READ!
God doesn't exist, at least the God most people worship. Think about it, why do we have religion? It all started tens of thousands of years ago.
Your a human that lives with a group of 10-20 people before civilizations emerged. The only communication you have is with those 10-20 people. You look up in the sky and see thousands of stars and have no clue what they are. Morning comes and the sun rises wtf is the sun? You don't know. How do you explain all this? Then a massive storm comes and it cannot be explained. Finally, what is death? Why do people die? What happens to them? The only answer is that a higher being of some form must control your environment. Do some research about religion many thousands of years ago and you'll find how many different religions or beliefs there were. Its just like language, if you live with only 10-20 people you'll have your own language. Think about all the different languages that have become extinct over the years, its the same with religion. The cause for the extinction was due to the rise of civilizations.
Civilizations occured through a series of these 10-20 tribes clashing with other tribes over land, food, water, women, etc. The defeated tribe would then either die because of a loss of a key tribe leader(s) (Ex: Dominate Male/Strongest Male) or they would join the victorious tribe and survive following that tribes lead. And basically it becomes a snowball effect until you have the first civilization with the most powerful in charge. I know Egypt was not the first civilization but think about how they lived. They had a Pharaoh that ruled the civilization and people worshiped him because their elders/parents did as well. They believed that the Pharaoh was the closest to god so why would they not worship the person that controlled the weather and everything else.
They even built pyramids to honor the god(s) to ensure the pharaoh had a good afterlife. Oh, and they built those pyramids with slaves, Hebrew slaves. So that brings me to Moses.
Moses was a great man and a great leader, so great that there has only been a few dozen leaders as good as him. He was able to lead his people out of slavery, So they worshiped him. Unfortunately, he had no sense of direction so out of heat exhaustion and everyone counting on him to lead, he comes up with these ten commandments...ok I made that last part up. Anyways that is the start of Judaism...kind of.
Anyways, ever great civilization had a great leader that everyone obeyed. That civilization basically had no knowledge of the outside world. They adopted that civilations way of life including religion. Through travel, people started to learn more about the outside world and when the returned they would rely what they saw and learned and tell it to the people. And sometimes what they would rely would be myth, just read Kublai Khan and you'll understand.
So when Jesus comes religion is just a common thing. He was a great man don't get me wrong but he did not perform those miracles. He was just such a great man/leader that people made him out to be something he was not. You would think that the son of god would have had an impact his whole life not just the last few years. What happened to the other 20 years?(probably getting stoned and building some houses).
People will follow just about any extremely talented leader. Look at Hitler, people followed him....and he was a Christian...probably didn't make it to heaven though.
Well how did Christianity get so popular then? the answer is by killing those that did not believe aka the Crusades. Christianity has changed so much that you have to question what is real. Catholic vs. Protestant
Another thing that proves that people will just adapt to there environment is the slaves/blacks in America. Do you think that they believed in Christianity before they came here? Hell no! But, then you might say that its was because they were not introduced to Christianity before that. Well we have introduced Christianity to the Muslims and they sure as hell dont believe in Christianity, so does that mean that all Muslims, which account for around 1.5 billion people are going to Hell. I find it hard to believe that if there is a god he would be cool with that.
Christianity pretty much took over North America for one reason, we were more technologically advanced then the Natives. The Natives had many different religions, think about the Mayans and the extremes they would go to to please (in Christian eyes) a false god...they had human sacrifices for crying out loud. Anyways the natives could not defend themselves against European weaponry (Guns) so they were forced to leave and now how often do you see a native american?
Anyways if you think about it this way, God is kind of like Santa Claus. You believe in Santa because your parents tell you he's real. You have no way of knowing the truth because he lives at the north pole a very popular vaction site I might add, but you believe because your parents tell you and you grow up believing. Its just like religion. God is something that has been passed down generation to generation and instead of the north pole he lives in heaven, an unreachable place, an alternate universe that you will never be able to fully prove whether it exist or not. The only way you'll find out is when you die. So people believe because they will never be proven wrong, and why not believe in an afterlife? It beats just becoming part of the dirt. But its hard for some people to believe that this life is all there is so they believe.
The reason you see more and more atheist now a days is because we now have the information to so many things at our fingertips. We are no longer confined to information within our civilization through word of mouth. Thanks to the printing press, radio, telephone, tv, and most importantly the internet we are able to understand and learn about the world. Advances in technology have helped us understand so much that we now know how the world works. We understand that the rain is the condensation of atmospheric water vapor into drops heavy enough to fall (wikipedia). We understand that the universe is vast and that we are not the center of the universe. Information is power. Think about if you went back in time and had the knowledge of today, people would think you were god. Hey maybe Jesus is actually from the year 2300 A.D. and he discovered time travel...who knows it could be possible.
With that said I am not an atheist I believe in some force that is greater than us. You can call it god if you like but my definition of god is completely different then ever other major religion. and I definetly believe in evolution, you'd have to be ignorant not to.
1. There is no evidence Moses actually freed a bunch of slaves, or even that Jews were slaves to the Egyptians
2. Jesus most likely did perform miracles, ppl do that shit today
3. What makes you think that (higher/greater) intelligence doesn't govern the fundamental dynamics of reality?
4. You made rather foolish/offensive/inconsiderate assumptions in what could have been condensed to a paragraph of rant (slaves accepting Christianity...)
5. You're absolutly right about the domination of races/cultures/relgions being accredited to technology, it just seems you're commiting a correlative fallacy
I completely agree that relgion is an occurance of the human condition (evolution of trial & error)
I have simply observed too much substance in religions to deem them invalid
Yeah your right about moses. I'm just going off the bible. What is your definition of miracles because im talking about how he healed the blind to see, and stuff like that?
I was raised in the church and trust me for the past 4 years I've wanted so bad to believe in God and Jesus but after many years of thought I cant commit myself to fully believing.
And I'm sorry if the slave thing was offensive. A lot of black people are Muslims. I was just saying how they are guilty of belief by association. I am guilty as well...at least I was 4 years ago
treat religions like technology, no one is going to give you a complete picture of all aspects with different viewpoints of the inconcievable entirity.
theres only one def. of miracles
the greatest truth is we cant know anything for certain; simply because creation is inifinite thereby altercating indefinitly
Jesus wants you to live with compassion, not partaking in the fast of self-interest
he died b/c of ppls stupidity < If you want to label yourself as a Christian, accept that and you are a Full Believer as its the essence of his exhortation
I wish it were that easy. I would be believing for all the wrong reasons. I can't just say I believe in him and poof I'm a Christian. I want to fully believe 100%, and in my heart know that there is a God and Jesus was his son who died for us. And until that day comes it looks like (a) I'm going to hell or (b) I become part of the soil. Its kinda hard to accept going to hell.
on a most basic level, why accept jesus as your savior?
-provides a positive outlook/motive in my day to be constructive/productive/progressive (in the midst of all the chaos, errors, impurities, perversions, inconsistancies i am confronted/exposed with/to)
I could give a flying fuck about the existance of hell as it can be created in our very lives
Jesus was a martyr for the common cause of humanity, what more do you want? we are all the sons and daughters of "God", if not what are we? we are babies, too incompetant to realize a great entity when its in our presence and end up exterminating it/them b/c we fear the unknown
how could you possibly believe 100% in w/e God of your faction unless you have experienced them directly (which can then either be classified as a divine encounter or hallucination)
blind faith isn't logical nor is atheism/agnostism
you see, the conundrum is far greater than your finite dilema of choice