I just checked out Mandala's website again...I was right: they will NOT be responsible if you don't follow their explicit advice to just plant them. They acknowledge that SOME other companies instruct otherwise for thier own seeds. I'm pretty sure that since they DO have a pretty good record of replacing problem seeds, and since they've been developing these strains for years, that they know what's best for their seeds. It seems pretty straight forward: if you choose to buy their seeds (I'm drooling over a couple of choices, myself), then why WOULDN'T you follow their advice? If you buy a brand new Ford truck, are you going to follow their maintenance schedule or Chevy's? And even Mandala suggests that you ask for and then follow the advice of whatever company you do buy from. I totally agree w/ Wetdog's words: why over-complicate things? Just my opinion.
Woah woah. I got a grip there buddy! My grip is, debating one theory against another. Or for better words, debating one proven practice, against another. If you didn't read through the entire thread, I am not utilizing Mandala Genetics so it cannot be held against me if I do not follow their guide. It is just something I came across one night in my browsing and decided to take it to the boards... I do wholeheartedly agree with the sense that it makes, put the seed in the ground, and wait for it to pop. Like the ol' fashion days. Although the advantages to knowing how many have popped are more people's style. So that they know how many they'll be dealing with in that run and adjust their space accordingly. I am trying to sprout six bag beans the paper towel way (since I've never tried this method before) and I'm still waiting. It is only about 9 or 10 hours past the 24-hour mark and still nothing yet. Eventually.... if one or a few do pop this way, then good... I'll be set for them. The remainder will get tossed into the next part just as they would've if they sprouted.. and if they are able to sprout in the dirt and pop out... more power to me The only answer I have to that question is for the grower to be entirely prepared. No surprises once so ever. You know how many you have and are working with, and you won't have to wait around (at least a week) waiting for a bean to pop soil that just won't...
Hey now; you SAID to debate it...so we're debating it. I don't mean to speak for Wetdog, but based on his post, he's of similar mind: it seems best to go with the direct planting. I agree w/ you, in that the only benefits I've experienced w/ the water glass and/or paper towel methods, is it tends to give you a quicker assessment on how many you've got that are viable...with, as I originally mentioned, the exception of some strains, such as the SSH I mentioned. That's the downside of not following up w/ a soil planting regardless of if they sprout - you might toss some that really are viable...only slow to sprout. The reason why I'm quitting the pre-soak and paper towels = what's the point, if I'm going to plant, regardless? Unless you're a major grower, an extra 3 or 4 days to find out - with the added benefit of a higher germination rate - I don't see any real reason to be impatient, but understand that some are. I enjoy the grow process itself (it's one reason I'm a small farmer), so I find it relaxing and a bit exciting to watch the little seedlings pop their heads up out of the soil. It's a small, delightful surprise, which the paper towel method takes away. And in this life, I'll take my pleasures where I can...
I must agree with you. I definitely will praise you for passing the knowledge. I've tossed two beans that seemd to spoil when I let them soak for too long in the water (while I was on vaca) and ended up just dumping that entire glass of water. It was like a weird film floating around the beans and they even looked defeated. But if the pre-soak methods doesn't work, I'll still place the beans into soil and give them some time to let nature run its course. Giving it two attempts rather than just one. Thanks
Hey typicalsmoker The method given by Mandala is identical to the method given by virtually every single breeder/retailer in the cannabis business. If you asked sensi, or chimera or luke at paradise/ Shantibaba or any other breeder what their biggest beef was they would all answer that the HATE, HATE, HATE, HATE, HATE the paper towel method of pregermination. And i would agree with them that whenever you see a complaint of low germ rates, its because of the paper towel/presoaking method of germination. YOu might notice that their isnt a single farmer ,growing any single crop anywhere in the entire world that germinates their seeds by presoaking or in paper towels. This somehow came to be the practice with cannabis growers, but it defies every principle of agriculture germination.
I appreciate your insight, and prefer to go with the backbone of the industry. If the BREEDERS say it, then it must be the end-all-be-all... but, in this day and age, everything is up for a debate.. and I feel as though I've hit my final conclusion. SO, let me get this right. For germination to occur best, you should water the soil you're going to use and let it sit for a solid 15 minutes, make sure it is well moist, and then, dig a small hole (how deep?) and throw the bean in there on its side. Cover it, and breathe easy knowing it will do the rest? I ask about how deep because I put my first bean (what I thought was half an inch deep) and it was wayyy deeper than any other seedling could ever force itself out of (hahaaa).. I technically lost that bean in the soil.. so i'll prolly do like a little deeper than a finger nail deep impression and just roll from there.
I'll more than likely be taking my beans out of the towels when I get home, setting up my little seedling pots and throwing 'em in there today.
There's a lot of good info out there on gardening in general that will transfer over for mj. With seeds, it's pretty much agreed upon to plant at twice the depth of the size of the seed...usually for mj beans, I just poke a shallow hole w/ a pencil as a dibble stick - as I do most of my vegetable seeds. I'm uncertain, myself, just what constitutes the "side" of a round seed, such as mj...I just drop it in the dibble hole, in moist (no wet) soil, and gently press firmly down. Then slightly water it to remove air pockets that would let the seed dry out. That's it, except to monitor to make sure the soil/medium stays moist - not wet. Too wet will deprive it of air - effectively drowning it. This is the exact same procedure I use on 1000+ seedling starts of vegetables, melons, tomatoes, etc. each year. It's just a standard planting procedure...I like it because it's so simple and effective. I will also use a humidity dome once they sprout, if the air is really dry. As I said; I'm done with the putzing around w/ pre-soaking, etc. The only other thing to mention is that a heat mat in colder temperatures will increase the germination rate and speed. I'm sure that there are strains that really do need to be babied along until they get well started, but I'll select for those that don't. I'm finding out that mj cultivation is just like every other type of plant: selection for the growing style and environment that you can/are willing to provide is much more effective and reasonable than trying to adapt your style and environment to the particular strain. {A basic farming principle.}
Exactly! If whatever does well in my garden, it comes back next year. If it is problematic for my environment and style, I don't bother with it again and try something different. I couldn't grow garlic when I used to live in SoFla, and I can't grow mango's where I live now. I'll just grow what will work in the environment, not try and change the environment. Too much work and $$$$$$. Wet
Thanks for the knowledge. I must say thank you several times here from you experienced gardeners - just not MJ-nuts.. who know what they are talking about. I appreciate both of you guys stopping by the thread and dropping knowledge. I'll be aligning my methods and practices to better fit how it has been done for a millennium so on and so forth. THANK YOU!!
I think the reason why Mandala seeds suggest planting the seeds straight in the ground is because of the genetic lines they breed. They deal with all landrace genetics that have not been cross bred much. So the seeds and plants are more adapted to the planting method as opposed to germination. Also they insist that they're seeds are fresh and if soaked or saturated with water they will abort germination. At least thats what I've picked up from reading their site. I cannot wait to try out some of their strains, they look amazing!!!!
Good point! Mandala are my favorite breeders because of their use of Landrace stock and minimal cross breeding. Just seems to make for stronger, more vigorous plants. Satori will knock your socks off. Wet
Yeah, if I were to purchase from mandala right now I'd be pretty shaky about it. my little closet prolly would not be able to contain one of their beasts haha
Yeah, it sucks that their online store is closed until then, huh? What's weird is that I've found 2 resellers that have their Satori for cheaper than they do, but the Safari mix is cheaper on their own site...and all the resellers cut it (the Safari mix) down to 10 seeds, instead of the 20 that Mandala stocks. At the current rate of exchange, it's $28.81 for 20 seeds in the Safari Mix = not even $1.50 per seed! I'ma gonna get me some next January, too - thanks for mentioning the mix! And I'ma gonna have a guerrilla grow of these babies, next summer.
I haven't really been thinking about ordering beans any more. It's been a while but I know I got a lot of freebies coming when I go back to 'tude since there was a mishap on my one and only order before.
Did a little experiment with some seeds I had using Mandala's methods with one very surprising result. Had 8 party cups with 5 seeds each and 1-2qt pot with ~10 seeds that had been soaked over night. 4 of the cups, I used a dibble stick, 4 just put the seeds on the surface and added a layer of soil (scant 1/2") and did the same with the 2qt pot. They all worked about the same with no clear real 'winner'. But it did seem that the ones put on the surface, sorta firmed down with the backs of my fingers, and then a layer added, again firmed down with the backs of my fingers, popped the fastest and most even. But nothing earth shattering, perhaps 1 day difference, if that. What was amazing was the soil mix. They were planted in a 1/2 recycled, 1/2 fresh mix that I make myself. Not super hot, but organically amended. I also had 2 seeds left over, that just for S&G put in a 5 gal bucket of used mix that I had recently harvested shallots out of. Nothing had been done to it yet as far as re amending or anything. I put the 2 seeds on top and covered with a handful of dirt and watered them in. After close to 3 weeks, the 2 in the used, unamended soil are easily 5x the size of the ones in the cups with the amended mix. LOL they (the ones in the cups), look like noob seedlings, sorta twisted, burnt and kinda runty. BTW, all are outside under full sun. I just got through thinning them out to 1 or 2/cup for the ones with the longest internodes. I'm looking for a male, so anything with tight internodes got cut. I'm doing a cubing thing on a strain and have the female to cross to. The sad thing is, the 2 that are doing so well appear to be females, but I haven't chopped them yet. I will be keeping that bucket of mix aside for any future seeds or freshly rooted cuttings. I have more, but it's handy. It was just so amazing how well those 2 did in a very mild mix compared to one that was hotter, even though the 'hotter' one was 1/2 of the very same mix. Wet
I just planted for my first time using one year old bag seeds and got 6 out of 6 sprout up using this method. 5 were out of the soil and happily growing within 48 hours and the last one took an extra day or two. I think I planted that last one a little bit to deep though. I just soaked the seeds for 16 hours overnight in a dark area with room temp water, and planted into saturated soil in 16 ounce cups. I let the cups sit in darkness for around 8 hours put them under cfls. They seem to be doing good for me. The reason I avoided using the towel method is because I only had a few seeds and didnt want to take a chance hurting the tap root. If you have a ton of seeds to spare I would use a paper towel but if you don't have a lot or are using something better than bag seed I personally would use this method. It worked great for me on my first attempt when I didn't even think all of them would grow. Worst case is you waste a little bit of dirt but you have no chance of damaging the tap root with this method.