Looking for a boy

Discussion in 'Indoor Grow Journals' started by inda, Dec 20, 2017.

  1. I had this boy two seasons ago which foolishly I did not keep a copy of. I had received a handful of seeds from a friend which had been a cross between a select male White Widow crossed with Rascals OG (aka Fire OG) clone. I had at the time popped two seeds hoping for a Girl because I only had one open spot for her. I ended up with one of each, although I had believed I had two Girls when I saw pre-flowers indicating Female on both. The person I had gotten the seeds from had grown out a MUCH larger number out and likewise all there boys for the most part looked initially like girls also which just seems to be the way of this strain. Even with the early on false sex to my knowledge none of these plants ever grew nanners although have been know to produce the occasional seed tucked up tight against the stem off the oldest nodes (observed by me, the person that did the cross and a few others). This trait has been observed by both of us (me and friend who did cross) through the various runs we have done of the mother OG clone. The OG has always indicated that she carries red genes which promote and abundance of anthocyanin (red pigment in plants) which is apparent near the end of flower, also occasionally bleeding red when injured and also the extracted oil (winterized BHO) has a strong red hue to it. Given the fact that it is clone or s1 only (we received original clone) she was crossed with my friends white widow. The White Widow originally came from Nirvana seed bank and is on its 16th generation (outdoor) selectively crossed (larger groups) at approximately 48 Lat which has allowed it to properly trigger and finish in the region (high desert) and also develop a cold tolerance.
    The end result of the cross between these gave two main phenos (75% of the offspring) whos difference was slight in appearance but noticeable in potency. Their was a pure dark purple pheno, in which almost 100% of the finished bud was purple minus the stem up the middle, which tended to have more intense aroma and then another which had purple calyxes and sugar leaves which the tips and edges were purple with the centers a jade green giving it a silvery appearance from a distance. Girls from this expression were much stronger in both THC (22-24%) and also CBG (2-3%) and had a earthy burnt wood call but harsh and made you cough like the OG. I only had 9 of these seeds left and only had 6 germinate and have not seen 100% exact copy of the original male I used and I asked my friend for more of this cross and have had none of his germinate although they are in the same lot. This is a potential set back if none of my 6 pan out but I do have s1 seeds from the OG and also a large batch of WW from the same year which had 100% germ rate 4 months ago, so worst case I can recreate that cross.
    The end result is hopefully another Boy like the attached photos, a sativa dominate, red veined, purple stemmed plant. Mind you this particular boy started showing signs of this in the first couple nodes of growth. I have seen other red stems show up but they are much slower or required a temperature dip and his was from pretty much the start without a temp trigger. My tablet which I have smashed the screen and made it unusable more then once had by chance happened the same time I had this boy so I have very few picture of him.
    BLK1stem.jpg BLK1redvein.jpg 0524161820b.jpg

    I wish I had more pictures of him but he was absolutely beautiful once he started dropping pollen. Those red stems later showed up in a cross I did against Strawberry Cough and that is actually what I am after. I decided to through him against my Strawberry Cough because many year ago she had exhibited amazing color patterns near finish similar to a tobacco sunset finish on an old Gibson guitar. This generally required a temp shift or a nitrogen drop to fully bring out but still amazing coloration and was the first thing that popped in my mind when looking upon the red vein trait. This a picture of a Strawberry Cough (Dutch Passion) from 6 years ago (circa '11), I am currently looking for her match but have only come so close.

    StrawberryCough.JPG

    Another Strawberry Cough (circa '16 Dutch Passion) was pollinated with the previous male and gave me a batch of seeds I refer to as SWR (Strawberry Cough x White Widow x Rascal OG). I grew a couple this year had an obscene 3:1 ratio of male / female of the bunch I had 2 Girls of which I harvested early and the other I let go to see what happens. At this time I realized I did not have the ancestry saved in clones to do real breading so I view it as a test to see what came out of it and if it was worth following up upon. The end result was out of 6 there was this one beautiful male what was a pinkish lavender that glistened silver under sun light and out of the 2 girls one had multi color leaves at the end of her life. I tried to cross them and got no viable seed. I am not sure where I messed up, either the pollen had degraded from the 4 months prior I had taken it or maybe I waited to long to pollinate the plant for my geography. At the end of the day I am set back 2-3 cycles, I have the original Rascal OG in s1 form I also have the same year of White Widow sisters/brothers used to make the first cross.so over the long term I can recreate the start point but also have 25 seeds of the cross left to work with.
     
  2. I will bring this up again but I am looking for H.O.G. ( Highland
    Oxaxaxa Gold. I know for a fact their is and individual who has preserved the genetics sence the 70s, both blue and gold out there in Vermont (Vermontman on icmag). I wish to take that line and cross it with the Choc Thai I have to bring back Purple Thai. At the end of the day I have seen expressions that mimic the Purple Thai in other Lines and am interested it making the cross to see if they are true to form and bring back the line that gave Flo and Blueberry.
     
  3. Interesting.

    Iv started dabbling myself in beeding and iv got some gentics here that im looking to use. Iv got original santa maria seeds (planck) black widow, jamacian and im looking for a quality male to cross with my choc haze which is choc thai x cantelope haze
    Also want to cross my sour d lime pheno with my black widow.
    This particular sour d has tinges of red in the stems and also purple in the bud which is interedting to me cause it wasnt brought on by temp swings.

    What do you look for in a male to give you a high quality cross ?
     
  4. I will have a response by tomorrow, I had typed something up earlier today and accidentally hit the back button and lost it all and there was no draft saved. I want to give a complete answer that covers at least how I am going about it currently and what I look for. Until then the key point is this you really need to have some time with the genetics you wish to use and start paying attention to the early signs of traits you want in veg.
     
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  5. Sorry late a family member ended up in the ER.
    Depends on if I am starting from scratch or if I am working with known genetics. Or possibly you may just want to get a wild card from your f2s and not bother stabilizing keeping it clone/self only. With unknowns (meaning I have never bred them to see the offspring) I generally select on the following factors; viability, structure, aroma/taste, appearance and what I guess you can call abuse given time. If it is a known line the same applies but I may deviate some in order to preserve the original traits over my own preferences and if the information is available I will also take in to consideration the original breeders selection process.

    Viability

    Viability in my opinion is the most important factor of any of them, it does you no good if your line is unable naturally reproduce. The males need to start dropping pollen when the females are some where in the 2-4 week mark of flower, faster finishing females need pollen sooner where as you have more wiggle room with your old slow equatorial sativas. My reasoning is this, If you were to establish a wild stand out in middle of no where, they (males+females) need to be matched up correctly in order to have the highest pollination rate without mans help. By starting a wild stand in the first few generations (f2+) of a cross one can also produce genetics that have been localized through natural selection. This will take many years but becomes incredibly useful to a strain you create with it down the line. The fore mentioned White Widow, not done by me, was treated in a similar fashion over a couple decades and now she is 100% localized for the 48th parallel, will always start flowering with just enough time to finish out before the weather turns and there is a major loss in daylight integral.

    Structure

    For the males I generally look for the ones in the middle of growth rate both by overall size and how fast. Also selecting for branching patterns, stem strength, and crown development. Clones are necessary here but also looking at root structure and how quick it can fill out a container. Large cow pots are nice here because you can see how far the roots are when they grow through the sides, then place those in a slightly larger plastic container to keep moisture in.

    Aroma

    With males I am generally looking for a more pungent smell. It seems like males contribute more so to the strength of of the offspring than the overall bending of the two aromas. For example Blueberry is a mix of the fruity floral line paired up with a skunky Afghani in order to develop the fruity blueberry aspect. As for the call/taste of the smoke I look for something that has a strong earthy/woody/hashy overall. I am just recently gaining depending access to “affordable” gas chromatography to keep track of strength and ration of terpines and the resulting crosses with females, I am hoping over the next few years to develop a more quantitative approach to being able to predict the outcome of crosses.

    Appearance

    Kinda basic here although seems to be less predictable and still developing my criteria and although further down the list I sometimes place this aspect higher when developing breeding stock. I look at a few particular locations on the plant at various stages of life, specifically the underside vs the top of the stem leading to the leaves (veg,transition), the veining from the junction of the stem to leaflets (veg,transition,flower), stem coloration (if present) along with pattern solid/stripped (veg,transition,flower), leaf margin color (veg,flower,finish), and overall leaf color (veg,flower). I prefer to look for these traits during the winter in a heated green house because I found I get a better representation of the color in finish during this period. This also allows me to drop temps to check for inter margin colors which come out with a large interval of day and night temps.

    Abuse

    I place this lower because I would rather select for the previous traits and then expose he offspring during the selection process to temperature extremes, lack or excess of food, and exposure to pests and fungus.


    Footnote: This is just the way I prefer to select and everyone has their own way but at the end of the day keeping good notes is key.
     
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  6. Skipping ahead I germinated the remainder of seeds I had from the batch that produced that boy and have 6 to select from (2/3 rate). I requested more seeds from that batch but so far non of them will germinate under the same controlled conditions (0/3 rate). I have 2 red stem but they are no where near as strong as that male. I am running them out but do not believe at this point that any of them are the same as that original male. So looking forward I still have White Widow '15 generation seeds available to me and also have the S1 of the Rascal OG to recreate the cross and last seed check 80%+ viability (less then 6m from last check). Worst case I will go back to this point to regain my boy.
     
  7. Long time no post but this project has not been abandoned. This is the Red Pheno Fire OG aka Rascals OG. This plant came from fem seeds of the original clone. The orginal clone was used not the self ed seeds but this is essentially the mother of that boy I am looking for. Now all I need is some White Widow pollen. It is growing outside in a 100 gallon grow bag all the info about it is in that thread.
    redrog02.jpg
     

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