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list of dominant recessive traits?

Discussion in 'Cannabis Breeding' started by Polygon311, Jun 24, 2010.

  1. I'm still a pollen chucker as they say but I'm wondering if there is a list of dom/recessive traits.. for example I heard that the blue colors are recessive.. is this true of all blue colored genes?
    I'm thinking there isn't a "list" as my searching found nothing..
     
  2. Doesn't exactly work like that. You as a breeder determine what is and isn't Dom/Rec. I can tell you what is Dom and Rec in the plant I work with but you don't have my genetics so it won't matter.
     
  3. #4 DankBudz63, Aug 21, 2011
    Last edited by a moderator: Aug 21, 2011
    I'm pretty sure a dominant trait is a universal thing - now, something like "potency" or "yield" is a product of multiple alleles, so unless someone has spent years of research on the DNA of hundreds of strains those can't be pinned down, but traits comprised of few or one allele like webbed or pinned leafs, pigment levels (leafs, stem, bud, and/or leaf-stems), etc. must exist and be simple to pin down and apply to all, no?

    I made up the examples I gave as "single allele traits" and I have no idea if they are as I've never bred, but my point is humans have single-allele traits universal to the species like eye color, relative big toe/2nd toe size, etc., so shouldn't all forms of DNA-based life also display these qualities? Sure, hidden recessive genes can complicate tests, but with enough numbers it should still be simple enough to catch that.

    Other than the possibility that strains very so much they supersede the universal species similarities I can't see anything wrong with my thinking... so please, explain the flaw in my logic.



    edit: hmm... went a bit heavy for hempfest, I think I meant chromosome instead of allele... or some other word that isn't allele... :smoke:.... but again, this is all just theory to me, I've only begun looking into breeding.
     
  4. Basic Principles of Genetics: Mendel's Genetics

    I have some traits for you

    Ruderalis .. thick stems
    Indica ..think leaves
    Sativa.. thin leaves

    LOLs ;):smoke: okay back to the serious side...

    purple caylxs/stamens ( not purple leaves.... ) recessive

    most flavors are too


    what DVM is trying to say ( or at least what I got out of it) is that depending on the strain the breeder may of removed most anything BUT the recessives ( like the DJs new Blueberry ) skewing the results.

    what we fail to realize is that our understand of genetics just got all fucked up with DNA sequencing .. If I asked you to name to Me Cannabis's closest relative you would say more then likely Humulus lupulus (Hops)...and up untill a few months ago I would agreed with you. But folks in Berkley that have been pouring through the angiosperm gene codes, have found that Cannabis's closest relative is strawberries....

    ^^ last paragraph kind off topic but it is news that the community needs to hear^^


    peace and good luck
    Wharf
     
  5. This is where it gets really confusing to me.(BTW, I ordered that book Wharfrat) I've grown for 21 years, give or take, and I've got a lot of land on which to work. I have tried to isolate a specific trait in a variety with 4 main phenos by simple methods such as smell and looks. Every time my resulting cross will still carry the 4 different phenotypes at about the same percentage as the generation before.
     
  6. Poppy

    Land Race from Panama right ? You may have to introduce new genes to get rid of the bad stuff, from Land Races. Cause most are regional specific ( and most of those can be broken down by the valley they were grown in) so their genetic pool gets real thin.

    you compared it to arjans haze..so maybe order in some Neville's Haze from Mr Nice ( as an example..read up and find the one YOU think is perfect..) , then pick a "new strain" male to cross into your Panamanian, and a Panamanian Male to cross into your best "new strain" girl. I bet in 2 -3 seasons/pulls, using your already set breeding regiment, you will be seeing a major decrease in the problem. and by the 5th it no longer exists ( guarantee it, if you read through the Clarke text book, and do some cubing.)

    Wharf
     
  7. I have some traits for you

    Ruderalis .. thick stems
    Indica ..think leaves
    Sativa.. thin leaves

    Yeah, that is generally true. But what about the hybrids that are neither Indica nor sativa, or Ruderalis. I have grown indica dom smoke with thin leaves.

    LOLs ;):smoke: okay back to the serious side...

    purple caylxs/stamens ( not purple leaves.... ) recessive True. in most lines.

    most flavors are too


    what DVM is trying to say ( or at least what I got out of it) is that depending on the strain the breeder may of removed most anything BUT the recessives ( like the DJs new Blueberry ) skewing the results.


    What I am saying with our current rate of research we have no data on universals in cannabis breeding. Even if we did it would not be hard and fast, it just doesn't work that way. Even in corn our most bred crop in the last 1000 years we only have some very basic universal rules, like Co dominate for height, dwarfism genes link to higher grain yield, dwarfism gene links to higher density.

    When deciding what is Dominate and what is recessive you need to grow out a small population 100+ plants then you need to collect data, basically looking for the traits that you see that most. Next select your male and make at least 3 crosses, once against a sibling that looks in all aspects as close as possible, once against something stable Skunk, Haze, I like Durban Poison for this, and once against a random hybrid. What you are looking for is again what trait do you see that is common among all three of the populations, that will be your Dominate traits for that male. Now that we have a good idea what the Dom trait are for that male, the question what is recessive. For that we will need a large population of inbred line ideally F2 is the easiest place to see all the recessive genes. Now in this large 500+ population of Full Sibling plants you now look and try to identify the dominate traits, that where observed in the previous populations. The way I do it is I have a data sheet in which is store my data and have the ability to sort it. First I look for the plant that exhibit the highest number of dominate traits first and work down to the plants with the least dominate traits. Once this is all entered in the data sheet i invert the data sheet, putting all the recessive plant at the top of the list. I then make a list of all the recessive gene that where exhibited in the F2 generation, store those notes till the F3 generation is underway. Now the only problem is are you sure, that the dominate genes are what you are actually after?

    http://www.doiserbia.nb.rs/img/doi/1018-1806/2004/1018-18060441113M.pdf

    Plant breding and farmer participation

    Selection Methods in Plant Breeding | Free eBooks Download - EBOOKEE!

    Use deposit files to download the book.
     
  8. #9 poppybgood, Aug 21, 2011
    Last edited by a moderator: Aug 21, 2011

    Sorry to go off topic on the OP's thread, but I suppose it's relevant. Yes the Panama. :smoke: The mango and juicy fruit gum phenos I'm assuming are the recessive traits, because the predominant trait smells like grapefruit peels when you twist them and take a big whiff. Last time I crossed it was with Skunk#1 x NL5. What I wound up with was giant skunk plants with insanely different harvest times and not a fruity smelling one to be found. I'm thinking what you said, either Haze or trying the BFIxMystic I have on hand since it's rock solid.
    Back to the OP, yes I think anyone who has tried uneducated/undirected breeding can see that locking down a recessive trait isn't as easy as taking female A and crossing with male B. There's so many variables ans so many plants have to be grown out it's almost an overwhelming thought. I suppose that's why quality seed banks charge what they do for beans.

    P.S Thanks for the insight and references Wharfrat and DVM. Hope fully that will help the original poster as well.
     
  9. wait so can strawberries get me stoned?
     
  10. don't we all wish .:smoke:
     

  11. No, I am allergic to strawberrys....I am sure as hell not allergic to pot though :)
     
  12. No body say anything horrible to me, here's what I have gone by...W is dominant, w is recessive. (This only counts for the intial hybridization that results in uniform phenotypes in the f1, hybridization of the f1 generation with itself results in total differentiation, and you end with the appearance of new phenotype combinations. And it's mostly math from there. So this is for 'crosses' only, beyond that requires plotting it out in a graph of 16 boxes and lots of work. Fixing them is a bitch) This is just first generation simple observations:

    W tall, w short
    W early, w late
    W pinnate leaf, w webbed leaf
    W green leaf, w purple leaf
    W high THC, w low THC(usually high CBD)
    W green calyx, w purple calyx
    W large seed size, w small seed size
    W diffuse root, w tap root
     
  13. did you take into account amount of light ?

    I have noticed the upper buds get bigger seeds while the lower ones get smaller.. also my outdoor seeds are huge compared to what I get indoors.

    Just a personal observation. but honestly I have never looked at seed size between strains before.....hmmmmmmmm :devious:

    Wharf

    PS not sure if this will help with the amount of time spent on Punnetts , but may be worth a look.

    Punnett Square Calculator
     

  14. I know, lots of variables, light being one, general health and age of seed, but in general my mixing of the plants containing small sativa seeds and the fat indy seeds showed a diffinate pattern in the offspring. Many trials later it seems to ring true.

    That calculator might be fun to try, especially when you get to the point of adding like geno AAbbccDDEe pheno AbcDE to geno aaBBCCddee pheno aBCde and fit them all into the cute little boxes that I map out, cuz this generally precedes me pulling out handfuls of my hair...I use 3ft wide butcher paper tacked to the wall because notebooks just don't cut it. This might be better. Thank you.
     
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