We're not making these investments because we have much lower margins and rely on the sun as our primary source of lighting. We trialed both the Phillips Greenpower toplighting and the Illumitex Harvest Edge toplighting against our 600W PL lights and they were superior for every application we tested. Yet we didn't adopt either simply because economically that money is better spent replacing poly or building out additional outdoor cultivation area or... For us the primary purpose of trialing this new technology wasn't to replace the legacy systems we already have, it was to make informed decisions for future expansion. I can guarantee you we won't be building out additional greenhouses with legacy lighting. Especially when taking into consideration the rebates Consumers will provide us for the investment in LED fixtures, in some instances we are eligible for refunds approaching 70% of the purchase price. Unfortunately these rebates are something that are primarily applicable at end of life for fixtures, so it's not as much of a boon as it could be...
I would guess that these greenhouses aren't running the lights the same as you would in a full indoor setup. I would also guess that the life span given for the light is how long it will stay running period, not how long it will run with 100% light output. I would imagine it is more in the 5 year replacement area.
We definitely don't run our lights like you would indoors. In our pre-finish houses they run similar to an indoor setup but in our finish houses they are either running a few hours for daylight extension/nighttime interruption or they are sporadically triggered when light intensity drops below a pre set during the designated run time. The 10-12+ year quote is for "usable light output" which is generally quoted at 70% of original output. We continue to utilize our HPS bulbs past this degradation level in many cases and likely would with LEDs as well. Again the lights are supplemental so this matters less than in sole source scenarios. We get 10+ years from our PL HPS fixtures so I would be quite surprised if we get less from LED fixtures and can guarantee that if we only get 5 years out of them we won't be sticking with whatever brand fails prematurely.
For our PL HPS we expect at least a year from the bulbs although many go two+. Firing up a zone for the first time in the winter will usually highlight bulbs that are heavily degraded and we change for that season. We expect ballasts to be fairly maintenance free for at least 3-5 years and often 7-10 years. Our current PL fixtures are mostly 11+ years and some have needed maintenance but almost all are still serviceable. Passively cooled LED fixtures should theoretically equal or surpass that. LED diodes are usually rated for such a long period that the drivers are the primary failure point and all things being equal quality wise, an LED driver should last longer than a HID ballast.
How can you compare 50 year old technology to todays newest technology .? Strictly indoor growers who use HPS or MH utility bills are 5 or six times more then the newest LED technology . a grower in another forum posted his power bill was 1200.00 for a 8x8 grow room . 64 square feet .. I have 84 to 90 square feet of grow space and my bill is 280.00 a month . That is a big difference in a power bill .. I am using Samsung boards ,some Cree/Cob and some mars lights .. personally I want to get some more Samsung boards and get rid of the mars lights .. The cree cob lights with maker controller I like because I can customize the color spectrum . With all my LED lights on I am running about 4000 actual watts .
Ok there boss man. Back the truck up. I have a 12x11, 8 600 watt magnetic HPS totalling 37 watts per square foot, 30k btu minisplit, two dehumidifiers, a humidifier, co2 system with Environmental controller , floor fan, 4 wall fans, and my bill is just over $300 Stop the misinformation please. A lot of led guys are super defensive and think "just because I use this it's right and everyone needs to agree with me " and are reaching VERY far in an attempt to make their choice look like it's the only/best choice.
No bad information on my part .Toby A member of another forum posted this thread . Read it for yoursell . HPS VS LED PGE Bill Calling on my fellow growers with big setups, I currently run a 8x8 tent with 3 (1000 Watt hps) lights I have an AC unit 12,000 BTU I have 1072 CFM exhaust fan and few small fans. Got my Bill for the last cycle fellas it was $1200 the previous month was $700. While the payout of the harvest would prolly balance and still be ahead. Wt type of difference would LED make on my bill and does HPS in 2020 still produce more than all LEDs
Toby is from CA if he has PG&E. CA is the 6th most expensive state in the US for electricity. PG&E uses a tiered system, based off of usage. He is probably paying just over $0.50 per kilowatt hour. He should have done his homework before trying to grow in that area. Where I live I am paying just under $0.13 per kwh. Each 1k @12hours a day adds up to $47 per month. Toby is paying 5 times what I do for electricity. When I was at the peak of my black market days, I had 1kw in veg, 4x 1k for flower, 20,000 btu of cooling, plus fans etc and my highest bill was $550.00. Today's Forcast... Partly Cloudy With A Chance Of Amber.
Hi I don't know where for a fact that the op of that thread lives and I am not a member so cant ask . Being honest with each other you sound logical. but its still a unknown ... Which really doesn't help trying to be 100% factual in this debate . , but still it seems to me the op of that thread was being honest . And when I quoted that thread I was being honest . I can understand that HPS do a great job growing MJ .. But most my life I have heard horror stories from the indoor growers about huge electric bills and getting turned in to the law because the utility bills were extremely high . I remember when the trick was to pull the meter out of the electrical panel and flip it upside down and then you could run you meter backwards for two weeks ,, Then flip it back before the meter reader came to read the meter again . Other part is HPS are joule 1.7 quality LED' light is using Joules .303 That is three to 4 times more efficient . In another Thread I made the break down on how to under stand Horticulture lighting efficiency It shows that LED lighting many times more efficient then HPS .. We are comparing 1960's technology to 2018 technology , I don't understand how anyone can say that HPS lights only use a little more energy then LED when the numbers are noticeably different . I can understand some growers have already invested into HPS lighting and sticking with what they know works . And honestly I believe that the cheap LEDS haven't done much to give some growers much confidence in making the switch . But that doesn't change the efficiency of the newer LED grow lights nor the older HPS lights . Really the only reason I am posting is because of the new growers have to make the decision of which light they should buy . Trying to learn myself and post links on how to understand certain parts of energy/electricity and lighting so they can make a educated opinion on which light gives you the best bang for the buck .. I can understand quality LED lighting costs are staggering . But at the same time the op's utility bill of the thread I posted was too. Pretty much everything I post now I can back with what research I have done . I am learning , Light and energy is maybe thee most complex study there is ..
HID and LED are both great lights to grow under. HID is cheap and has IR, some have UVA. Less efficient, hotter. LED is more efficient so operating costs or electric bill is cheaper. Can customize spectrum. Lacks IR. Cooler tech. No such thing as 1 growing more than the other per watt of output. Plants don't care about the type of light, only the spectrum and intesity a light provides. CMH has a great SPD, and if you blend a CMH + HPS theres really not any WV missing except UVB. You can blend LED as well to achieve an SPD that's not void in any WV, except IR. LED lacks IR. The sun has tons of IR, and despite there not being any documented photoreceptors in the IR range, IR can increase LST, which increases plant metabolism and transpiration rates.
That grow wasn't really typical of a normal home grower in a 4x4. Sent from my SM-G950U1 using Grasscity Forum mobile app
I run 1 315watt cmh and 4 qb 288s in my 5x5. I honestly couldn't be happier with the setup. The cmh bulb will last me almost as long as the led lights. 85% output at 20000 hours that's 4 and half years before I even need to think about replacing my bulb since it only runs in flower tent. Sent from my SM-G950U1 using Grasscity Forum mobile app
The OP stated that it was a 8x8 grow area . 64 square feet 1200.00 power bill My grow area 84 square feet , power bill is 280.00 to 285.00 average .
Which is even more out of the typical range of the regular 4x4 tent that most growers would use. I know everyone always talks about making sure you are using the MAX watts per sq/ft. If I was doing a 4x4 grow and using HID I would use 2 315 watt CMH, and that would kill it in that space. Only a hundred(ish) watts more than MAX LED requirements. I can't speak to needing an A/C unit for a small 4x4 tent, but I don't see ever needing one with that small of a space. I don't think you can really compare cost of power bills unless you were both paying the exact same per kw/hr while also factoring in climate.
As of 2017... If your LED is pumping 3.0μmol/J and your HPS is pushing 2.0μmol/J, and they are emitting the same spectrum, and PPFD is maintained, then your HPS electric bill will be 1.5× more than your LED bill, or your LED electric bill will be 66% of your HPS bill. This doesn't take environmental conditioning into account, ie AC ect.
I can agree with that ... Doesn't mean that two growers cant post what they pay per Kilowatt and go from there .. I have no issues comparing grow room square footage to energy bills and comparing one light to another and then comparing yields .. Isn't that what this thread is about ? I only do the suggested wattage of LED lighting per square foot of grow space because its the most direct answer that growers new to LED lighting can understand. The exploration of learning Electromagnetic Radiation is complex and vast . With that said I don't know near enough , I am learning every step of the way. As of wattage has nothing to do with quality of the light nor efficacy ,,,