The best single ended HS is Hortilux HPS at 1600umol. Ive used them since they came out. I also use 1150w Gavita DE HID. Also use Gavita 1700e. 1700e is 645w at the wall, and is 1700umol. Gavita recommends the 1700e replace the best 1000w HID/4 x 4 area. So while very expensive the 1700e outperforms the 1000w Hortilux by 100umol in a 4 x 4 area. So you need 40w sq/ft of the best of the best Samsung LED to EQUAL A 1000W HID in a 4 x 4 area. Not my words, Gavitas, and I have found this to be the case.
I hear ya. More manufacturers (HLG, Mars, etc.) are starting to go the plug and play route because of that. Most home growers just want simplicity. Leave the soldering for the commercial guys I'm seeing more and more research on ultraviolet, far red and infrared having effects on plants that we simply didn't understand before. I think that's where LED's will really shine in the future. The complete spectrum instead of the half spectrum HID's generally create. I know LED vs HID has been argued for a long time but I think we're finally at that tipping point.
We use 2x Solacure 32w Flowerpower UVA/B bulbs per 4 x 4 area, and 1000w Hortilux, and Gavita 1700e. It has increased potency. Noticeably. They are on 8 hours a day regardless of 24 hours Veg, or 12/12 flowering. 24 inches from top of canopy. If closer, like 20 inches we run them 6 hours. We also use them in Veg/Seedlings. We veg with 1000w Hortilux HPS/Gavita 1700e and 4 x 4 area. Gavita 1700e is 645w at wall and 1700umol. 1000w Hortilux HPS is 1600umol. So Gavita 1700e is 100umol more powerful, and 1/3 less watts usage.
You are comparing apples to oranges. One guy, in a 100% controlled environment, with CO² enrichment, with 2 decades in the industry, with tried and true high yielders, and the very best that money can buy. VS Hundreds of thousands of home growers with no idea what RH stands for, no CO², little to no experience, and just enough money to buy some knock off Samsung boards or go HID. Believe it or not there are a select few that can pull off 2gpw from over lapping 1Ks with CO² enrichment. Let's not pretend that the run of the mill home grower is going to be consistently pulling 2-3 gpw. Today's Forcast... Partly Cloudy With A Chance Of Amber.
I'm not making that comparison at all. When I analyze potential equipment I look at how it may integrate into my knowledge base and setup, not how it might apply to: "Hundreds of thousands of home growers with no idea what RH stands for, no CO², little to no experience, and just enough money to buy some knock off Samsung boards or go HID." I grow horticultural crops in commerical greenhouses for a living and I'm interested in how I can utilize legacy lighting vs LED technologies comparitivley. If you want to postulate what may or may not be the best bet for novice growers compared to the exceptional growers, feel free. I'm here making my purchasing decisions off of my knowledge base and my needs. When I analyzed my options for a recent expansion of a controlled environment indoor cannabis grow I went with broad spectrum white LEDs as opposed to legacy lighting options. This decision was based on a business plan that included every known input: from HVAC requirements to electrical loads/costs to dehum/hum capabilities to airflow design to... Current broad spectrum LED technologies are providing chip efficiencies north of 2.5 µmol/J and system efficiencies north of 2.2 µmol/J. All of the legacy lighting I looked into was toping out around 1.7-1.8 µmol/J for system efficiencies. This increase in efficiency combined with lifetime equipment costs, combined with decreased HVAC necessities, combined with... had my ROI compared to legacy lighting occuring in the second year! For me the switch to LEDs was a no brainier.
Has anyone ever looked at the output loss of leds and the cost to replace them when needed? Sent from my SM-G950U1 using Grasscity Forum mobile app
I believe he means how long they last before they start to lose light output. If an LED is rated at say 50,000 hours that means its lost 30% of its output at 50,000 hours. Its operating at 70% capacity vs new. While not scientific they seemingly lose 10% every 17,000 hours.
They need to just make a light that you plug in and it lasts. Jeesh why invest billions every year for the iPhone 12 or Xbox 6. Invest nothing in electricity because what's after what we already have, free electricity, and nobody's getting out alive with that breakthrough. Sent from my Pixel 3a using Grasscity Forum mobile app
This article is more focused towards residential LED lighting options but is relevant nonetheless: What Happened To The 100,000-Hour LED Bulbs? Most LED fixtures will far outlive their technological relevance and thus, unlike legacy lighting options, replacement/maintenance is generally going to be based on better alternatives being available as opposed to failure.
If you waited for the full 50,000 hrs to replace and had a small to medium commercial grow at around 5000 sqft and each HLG light covers around 16sqft that's about 312 fixtures at $1000 each. Replace them every 5 years.....
If you aren't comparing then why ask me to check out someone elses grow? I... am referring to what works for the masses or majority, so clearly we are talking about 2 different lines of thought. "For me the switch to LEDs was a no brainier". That's awesome man, really. However, they aren't a no brainier for myself and many others. I run a commercial cannabis greenhouse where LEDs have no practical application. I'm not raising my lights for every IPM application. The start up cost to switch to LEDs and replace them entirely every 5 years is unacceptable. I do use HID lights because they can be mounted 18ft in the air where my sprayer won't saturate the ballast or bulb. For my personal grow, again, start up cost to switch is unacceptable. I don't have overlapping lights. I do one crop a year maybe 2 to get the 2-4lb I need for as cheap as I can. No CO², not in a sealed environment, using untested genetics. I am using a 12 year old 600W Lumatek ballast for veg and an 11 year old 1k magnetic ballast for flower, both still giving me at least 1gpw. How many LEDs can say that? If I had LEDs in veg I would have had to replace the entire fixture 3 times in 12 years if you include the initial purchase. Today's Forcast... Partly Cloudy With A Chance Of Amber.
I am curious. Are you mounting your HID(s) 18ft? I agree it can be done this way and it will work, but is it the most efficient way to be lighting? Also why can't you mount the LED(s) at 18ft?
The sun is my primary source of light. The HIDs are just to prevent flowering. I only run 2x 1ks per 2500sqft. Today's Forcast... Partly Cloudy With A Chance Of Amber.
almost no commercial greenhouses in north america use LEDs to produce vegetables in the winter, and they are obsessed with yield.
Theye building a facility/Greenhouse in Morehead, Ky, and its going to be one of the biggest Greenhouse/Veggie producers in the world. Largest in USA. I live 1 hour away. Guess what they will supplement the lighting with?? They will also use HID, but only in the winter for heat. EQUILIBRIUM SIGN DEAL FOR WORLD’S LARGEST LED LIGHTING ... EQUILIBRIUM SIGN DEAL FOR WORLD’S LARGEST LED LIGHTING INSTALLATION IN MOREHEAD... VIDEO AND IMAGE GALLERY: Click here for greenhouse renderings, aerial video of the site and images. AUGUST 15, 2019 – MOREHEAD, KENTUCKY – AppHarvest announced today its 60-acre greenhouse will be outfitted with a $15 million hybrid LED lighting system, making it the world’s largest LED installation for a single building.
Phillips will sell the New Greenpower LED for $800 each, but you have to buy 40 of them. They wont sell non commercial. The most powerful Greenpower is the 635w x 1800umol. I myself use all of them. We use Gavita 1150w DE Gavita 1700e 1000w Hortilux HPS Superbulb. Would love to have the Phillips, but they wont sell individually.
I was responding directly to this comment of yours: You asked for instance(s) of somebody getting between 2 to 3 grams per watt out of LED technology, so I obliged. You said: "I run a commercial cannabis greenhouse where LEDs have no practical application. I'm not raising my lights for every IPM application. The start up cost to switch to LEDs and replace them entirely every 5 years is unacceptable. I do use HID lights because they can be mounted 18ft in the air where my sprayer won't saturate the ballast or bulb." -This is why there are top lighting solutions specifically for greenhouses. I've trialed truss mounted toplighting solutions from both Phillips and Illumitex in ornamental greenhouses and they met or exceeded our legacy systems for nighttime interruption/daylight extension/crop supplementation. You said: "For my personal grow, again, start up cost to switch is unacceptable. I don't have overlapping lights. I do one crop a year maybe 2 to get the 2-4lb I need for as cheap as I can. No CO², not in a sealed environment, using untested genetics. I am using a 12 year old 600W Lumatek ballast for veg and an 11 year old 1k magnetic ballast for flower, both still giving me at least 1gpw. How many LEDs can say that? If I had LEDs in veg I would have had to replace the entire fixture 3 times in 12 years if you include the initial purchase. Today's forecast... Partly Cloudy With A Chance Of Amber." -I'm certainly not going to sit here and claim that LEDs are right for you and your particular needs, every grow is different and provides individual factors that need to be accounted for when picking optimal solutions. What I will say though is that you appear to lack basic understanding in multiple facets of LED technology. I've shopped for and trialed LED toplighting solutions from multiple companies and every single one of them cited 10 to 12+ years for average life expectancy in greenhouse use. Every single bit of research I've done has shown that all of the components of quality LED lighting systems match or exceed life expectancies of their legacy lighting counterparts. The Green Organic Dutchman is running a 100+ acre commercial cannabis greenhouse with Fluence Vypr truss mounted toplighting and absolutely rocking it!
I'm not saying it doesn't happen, just most companies still wont make the initial higher investment for the same or less quantity light.