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LED vs HPS/MH

Discussion in 'Lighting' started by Skunk_smell_isn't_me, Jan 30, 2020.

  1. cost is still a huge difference, but the advantages of cost to HPS/MH is offset by things like lower power consumption, Spectrum adaptability, and heat but that's about it. down to mmol/s HPS is far superior for a cost to amount of light produced equation.

    whats everyones thoughts?
     
  2. [​IMG]
    Preaching to the choir ...what other doubts have you
     
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  3. [​IMG]

    What say you, good analogy?
     
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  4. MH/HPS are just simpler, tried and true. If you have x amount of space, you need this size/wattage lamp. Don't have to worry about drivers, heatsinks etc. Not knocking LED at all because they're awesome and the future of lighting, but for as much as people worry about growing, there's something to be said about the simplicity of MH/HPS.

    Sent from my SM-N975U using Tapatalk
     
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  5. Can't go wrong with a HID set up. They give guaranteed results regardless of most brands ( not true for LEDs, too many garbage producers). HID is plug and play. Most people can't afford plug and play LEDs that are worth anything.



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  6. Vegged under HPS. I have been very happy with the results.
    IMG_20200126_143052546.jpg
    IMG_20200129_172613519.jpg

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  7. Fixture cost is the only advantage that I can see that Hid lighting has over the newest LEDs . Yes the old burple lights are terrible , but if you take a look at something with the Samsung 301b you will see what I m talking about.

    Not sure what you mean by the last statement " down to mmol/s HPS is far superior for a cost to amount of light produced equation"
    Sounds like you are saying HPS is more efficient?

    I want to be clear. I'm not knocking Hid lighting in anyway. It has carried the indoor growing industry for a very long time . And they still are amazing lights.
    But here's the part some guys aren't going like modern LEDs have surpassed hid performance in every category. Except intial fixture cost.


    These were very popular threads about a year ago when I first joined this forum. I thought we knew this as a collective.
     
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  8. When LEDs literally match HPS wattage I might agree. If I run a 600w LED that is supposed to replace a 1K HPS and I get 1gpw from each fixture, I still come up 400 grams less in the same area. Yield per sqft matters. Do I want 1000g/m³ or 600g/m³ ?

    Give me an actual 1K LED and I would give it a shot.

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  9. I'd agree with you 2 years ago but not now. Better spectrum, lower energy, lower heat. You basically get the same thing with a 20-40% energy savings. What's wrong with that?

    You need to check out MIGRO's YouTube channel. He does very objective analysis of so many LED's and compares them to HIDs. Every new LED that comes out beats MH/HPS in efficiency. Yes blurples suck but the new full spectrum LED's are better, way better. He even has an efficiency chart the way Top Gear used to do their fastest car list. HPS is way down the list.
     
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  10. The lack of efficiency can be offset by an increase in yield. 400 extra grams per m³ using 1gpw as the standard. That could mean you only need one crop per year for personal use instead of two crops.

    Plug and play is huge for myself and a lot of other people. I don't want to deal with soldering and heatsinks etc. Most LEDs don't seem to be designed to run in moist environments as well. The only decent plug and play LEDs are Gavitas or Fluence and those cost $1200.00 for one.

    Nobody seems to think about these things.

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  11. Despite our differences in opinion, I am glad this discussion is staying civil.

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  12. Your talking old burple led numbers there.
    With the QBs and those newest LEDs even an entry level grower is seeing 1.5gpw now and the better led growers are over 2gpw closing in on 3gpw.

    These LEDs can replace 1000w hps with
    700 let's say 750 watts . Hps has been king since 1950s that's impressive for an tech but in the last 1-2 years its happened
     
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  13. Right! I'm afraid to even get into some subjects around here. Lol
     
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  14. #14 SirDabbington, Jan 30, 2020
    Last edited: Jan 30, 2020
    You're going to have to show me a LED manufacturer that can back these claims with proof. I don't see anybody running around claiming 2-3 gpw anywhere. Not even Gavita or Fluence. If they were getting 2-3 gpw, every commercial grower on the planet would have swapped their lights yesterday.

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  15. I won't be running my barebulb 600 hps much longer because they aren't giving the penetration that even air-cooled 1000 watt HPS provided before I switched.

    The day LEDs can be mounted 8 feet high and penetrate all the way to the floor so that even my lower flowers on my 5 foot plants are as dense as they are with 1000s , then I'll switch.

    For now, my opinion, HID for growers with large rooms and large plants and LED for the hobbyist / micro tent grower. Just sucks they charge the small return grower $800+ for a Samsung light and a commerical guy can get 8 1000 watt ballasts for that price.
     
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  16. (µmol m-2 s-1) is the amount of measurable photons produced at a certain square meter, for example LED companies use ppfd in their advertisement but that simply is the amount of light measured per square meter. so
    Black Dog 1000W LED, gets 930 ppfd in 4x4 space.
    Philips, Master GreenPower gets 1412.76 PPFD in same 4x4 space
     
  17. I just posted a hard numbers comparison to 1000W LED vs HPS, both high quality pro growing companies, photosynthesis has direct correlation to yield, so id say HPS would still logically yield(just more photons available) more compared to the best LEDs still.
     
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  18. #18 GroBro420, Jan 30, 2020
    Last edited: Jan 30, 2020
    I had a scientific study on led vs HPS that literally said exactly what you just wrote in the conclusion. I'll try to find it

    Edit: still looking for the study but came across this

    Grow Lighting: LED vs. HPS

    "A study published this June concluded that “the most efficient HPS and LED fixtures have equal efficiencies, but the initial capital cost per photon delivered from LED fixtures is five to ten times higher than HPS fixtures.” Yes that’s right, they measured light by the photon; pretty intense right?"

    "Another interesting finding in the study is that light quality is much less important than light quantity. "

    So full spectrum is just a sales pitch, only thing that matters is watts.
     
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  19. Interesting way to put it by saying quality is less important than quantity, but when you think of the sun growing plants its extremely high quantity and changes quality all the time based on weather, where the plant is growing in terms of latitude longitude etc. cloud cover, changes in where it is in the sky throughout the year.
     
  20. Head over to KIS Organics and check out their podcast. Tad interviews some amazingly talented and well respected growers, many of them with significant LED exposure. Nelson Lindsley is probably the highest per area yields I have heard at approximately 90 grams per square foot and above 2 grams per watt. Episodes 9&10 Tad interviews him with direct discussion of yield coming in the first few minutes of episode 10. Nelson cites 3.25 pounds per Fluence Spydr which comes out solidly above 2 gpw. You can check Lindsley out over on IG under Poetry of Plants.
     
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