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Leaves lost color and stunted

Discussion in 'Absolute Beginners' started by DevilRed, May 1, 2003.

  1. So ive got a good half dozen sprouts started. About 6 of them at about 3" with a few sets of leaves, the other half only 2" with just one set of main leaves above the split pod leaves.

    Anyway here is my problem. I gave the plants some Miracle Grow.....and I think too much. But I also put the sprouts on my deck one morning and it was about 33 and sunny(warm sun). So im not sure if frost or fert overdose is my problem.

    The leaves on a few of the smaller plants actually had the green sucked out of them, they sort of turned really light color. The big plants were not as affected as the smaller.

    Ive watered the piss out of them all with good drainage to try and flush them some .....is that good? They are still all in small containers waiting 2 more weeks to go outside.

    Anyway the smaller seem stunted, but not dead. Any idea on how long until they start to pick up the pace again? Frost or Fert my culprit?
  2. one... you need to wait awhile to provide your sprouts with ferts.. miracle grow and others contain acidic elements that will cause your leaves to brown... i usually wait a month before using any ferts

    two.. growing outside? could be cold weather, could be bugs..

    three... your leaves... light i know... but are they dry, like you could break them apart real easily?

    four... careful with the water... overwatering can cause the same problems
  3. Well, its not bugs, and the leaves are not dry, but they did go brown. The plants have not died, just the little plants really slowed down. This happened about a week back , and in this past week they have really very little new growth, no new leaves, just little growth or repair of what was there.

    I gave them a lot of water at first to sort of flush the soil, but im now only giving water 2wice a week.
  4. sounds like you are doing everything right now... just give it a little while... take careful care of them and they should be back to normal in no time
  5. maybe a trait of the strain
  6. Well im not sure of the strain, this is only my second year growing. But it is a strong and VERY stinky strain. My buddy is sort of a secret pecker and won't tell me what it is. The leaves are very large and very dark green when mature outside, and the bud is WOW stinky.

    He has had a momma plant and cloned off of her and her girls for 7 years now. I guess its his pride and joy.

    Of the few ive got that are a good 3" or a bit taller with a good bunch of leaves.........they already stink.

    Anyway to tell males from females when they are so young?
  7. To my understanding there is no way to tell when they are that young. You need to wait until one of them branches off and put that branch in a paper bag for 12 hours of dark and 12 hours of light for a week. in a weeks time look at the base of the branch and you should see either hairs that come out or little green balls hanging. these balls will swell with pollen and burst.

    Attached Files:

  8. This is one of a hermaphrodite (both male & female)

    Attached Files:

  9. Ive heard you can smoke the males if you harvest them early? Anyone done so?
  10. jus make hash otu yo males man its the best i think but that my opinion
  11. yeah... just take the whole male plant.. grind it up and either make hash or cook with it... or keep it alive and seed your plants
  12. So males don't get you high? Or is it just a really shitty high?
  13. Cannabis is unique in many ways. Of all plants, it is the only genus known to produce chemical substances known as cannabinoids. The cannabinoids are the psychoactive ingredients of marijuana; they are what get you high. By 1974, 37 naturally occurring cannabinoids had been discovered 115,118. Most of the cannabinoids appear in very small amounts (less than .01 percent of total cannabinoids) and are not considered psychoactive, or else not important to the high. Many are simply homologues or analogues (similar structure or function) to the few major cannabinoids which are listed.
    1. (-)-{triangle}9-trans-tetrahydrocannabinol ((There are several numbering systems used for cannabinoids. The system in this book is most common in American publications and is based on formal chemical rules for numbering pyran compounds. Another common system is used more by Europeans and is based on a monoterpenoid system which is more useful considering the biogenesis of the compound.)) This (delta-9 THC) is the main psychotomimetic (mindbending) ingredient of marijuana. Estimates state that 70 to 100 percent (121) of the marijuana high results from the delta-9 THC present. It occurs in almost all Cannabis in concentration that vary from traces to about 95 percent of all the cannabinoids in the sample. In very potent varieties, carefully prepared marijuana can have up to 12 percent delta-9 THC by dry weight of the sample (seeds and stems removed from flowering buds). (("Buds" of commercial marijuana is the popular name given to masses of female flowers that form distinct clusters.))
    Delta-8 THC - This substance is reported in low concentration, less than one percent of the delta-9 THC present. Its activity is slightly less than that of delta-9 THC. It may be an artefact of the extraction/analysis process. Here we refer to delta-9 THC and delta-8 THC as THC.
    2. Cannabidiol - CBD also occurs in almost all varieties. Concentration range from nil (119,138), to about 95 percent of the total cannabinoids present. THC and CBD are the two most abundant naturally occurring cannabinoids. CBD is not psychotomimetic in the pure form (192), although it does have sedative, analgesic, and antibiotic properties. In order for CBD to affect the high, THC must be present in quantities ordinarily psychoactive. CBD can contribute to the high by interacting with THC to potentiate (enhance) or antagonise (interfere or lessen) certain qualities of the high. CBD appears to potentiate the depressant effects of THC and antagonise is excitatory effects (186). CBD also delays the onset of the high (183) but can make it last considerably longer (as much as twice as long). (The grass takes a while to come on but keeps coming on.) Opinions are conflicting as to whether it increases or decreases the intensity of the high, "intensity" and high" being difficult to define. Terms such as knock-out or sleepy, dreamlike, or melancholic are often used to describe the high from grass with sizeable proportions of CBD and THC. When only small amounts of THC are present with high proportions of CBD, the high is more of a buzz, and the mind feels dull and the body de-energised. {See Figure 11 to 16 for chemical structure in monochrome bitmap format.}
    3. Cannabinol - CBN is not produced by the plant per se. It is the degradation (oxidative) product of THC. Fresh samples of marijuana contain very little CBN but curing, poor storage, or processing such as when making hashish, can cause much of the THC to be oxidised to CBN. Pure forms of CBN have at most 10 percent of the psychoactivity of THC (192). Like CBD, it is suspected of potentiating certain aspects of the high, although so far these affects appear to be slight (183,185). CBN seems to potentiate THC's disorienting qualities. One may feel more dizzy or drugged or generally untogether but not necessarily higher. In fact, with a high proportion of CBN, the high may start well but feels as if it never quite reaches its peak, and when coming down one feels tired or sleepy. High CBN in homegrown grass is not desirable since it represents a loss of 90 percent of the psychoactivity of its precursor THC.
    4. Tetrahydrocannabivarin - THCV is the propyl homologue of THC. In the aromatic ring the usual five-carbon pentyl is replaced by a short three-carbon propyl chain. The propyl cannabinoids have so far been found in some varieties originating from Southeast and Central Asia and parts of Africa. What are considered some very potent marijuana varieties contain propyl cannabinoids. In one study, THCV made up to 48.23 percent (Afghanistan strain) and 53.69 percent (South Africa) of the cannabinoids found (136). We've seen no reports on its activity in humans. From animal studies it appears to be much faster in onset and quicker to dissipate than THC (181). It may be the constituent of one- or two-toke grass, but its activity appears to be somewhat less than that of THC.
    The propyl cannabinoids are a series corresponding to the usual pentyl cannabinoids. The counterpart of CBD is CBDV; and of CBN, CBV. There are no reports on their activity and for now we can only speculate that they are similar to CBD and CBN. Unless noted otherwise, in this book THC refers collectively to delta-9 THC, delta-8 THC, and THCV.
    5. Cannabichromene - CBC is another major cannabinoid, although it is found in smaller concentrations than CBD and THC. It was previously believed that is was a minor constituent, but more exacting analysis showed that the compound often reported as CBD may actually be CBC (119,137). However, relative to THC and CBD, its concentration in the plants is low, probably not exceeding 20 percent of total cannabinoids. CBC is believed not to be psychotomimetic in humans (121); however, its presence in plants is purportedly very potent has led to the suspicion that it may be interacting with THC to enhance the high (137). Cannabicyclol (CBL) is a degradative product like CBN and CBV (123). During extraction, light converts CBC to CBL. There are no reports on its activity in humans, and it is found in small amounts, if at all, in fresh plant material.

    2.2 Cannabinoids and the High
    The marijuana high is a complex experience. It involves a wide range of psychical, physical, and emotional responses. The high is a subjective experience based in the individual - one's personality, mood, disposition, and experience with the drug. Given the person, the intensity of the high depends primarily on the amount of THC present in the marijuana. Delta-9 THC is the main ingredient of marijuana and must be present in sufficient quantities for a good marijuana high. People who smoke grass that has very little cannabinoids other then delta-9 THC usually report that the high is very intense. Most people will get high from a joint having delta-9 THC of .5 percent concentration to material. Grass having a THC concentration of three percent would be considered excellent quality by anyone's standards. In this book, for brevity, we use potency to mean the sum effects of the cannabinoids and the overall high induced.
    Marijuana (plant material) is sometimes rated more potent that the content of delta-9 THC alone would suggest. It also elicits qualitatively different highs. The reasons for this have not been sorted out. Few clinical studies with known combinations of several cannabinoids have been undertaken with human subjects. This field is still in its infancy. So far, different highs and possibly higher potency seem to be due to the interaction of delta-9 THC and other cannabinoids (THCV,CBD,CBN, and possibly CBC). Except for THCV, in the pure form, these other cannabinoids do not have much psychoactivity.
    Another possibility for higher potency is that homologues of delta-9 THC with longer side chains at C-3 (and higher activity) might be found in certain marijuana varieties. Compounds with longer side chains have been mode in laboratories and their activity is sometimes much higher, with estimates over 500 times that of natural delta-9 THC (55,113,191). Compounds besides THCV with shorter chains (methyl (139) and butyl (118)) in this position have been found in small amounts in some marijuana samples, indicating that variations do exist. However, this is not a very likely explanation. More likely, THCV is more prevalent in marijuana than supposed and probably had additive or synergistic effects with delta-9 THC.
    The possibility that there are non-cannabinoids that are psychoactive or interacting with the cannabinoids has not been investigated in detail. Non-cannabinoids with biological activity have been isolated from the plants, but only in very small quantities (181). None are known to be psychotomimetic. However, they may contribute to the overall experience in non-mental ways, such as the stimulation of the appetite.
    Different blends of cannabinoids account for high of different qualities. The intensity of the high depends primarily on the amount of delta-9 THC present and on the method of ingestion. A complex drug such as marijuana affects the mind and body in many ways. Sorting out what accounts for what response can become quite complex. The methodology to isolate and test the different cannabinoids now exists. The National Institute of Mental Health (NIMH) is funding research on the pharmacology of marijuana. However, such research is paltry, considering that over 30 million people in the United States use the crude drug. Much more research is needed before definite understanding of the cannabinoids and the high is attained.
    When the legal restriction are removed, marijuana will probably be sold by particular blends of cannabinoids and standard amounts of delta-9 THC. Synthetic marijuana will probably be made with homologues of delta-9 THC that have much higher activity than the natural form. For now, without access to a lab, you must be satisfied with your own smoking evaluation (for research purposes only), ultimately the most important criterion any way.
    2.3 Resin and Resin Glands
    Many people consider potency and resin concentration synonymous. People hear of plants oozing or gushing with copious resin, and the image is of resin flowing in the plant like the latex of a rubber tree or the sap of a maple tree. But these visions are just pipe dreams.
    It is quite possible to have a resinous plant with little potency or a plant with little apparent resin which is very potent. Potency depends primarily on the concentration of THC in the plant material. Many more substances besides the cannabinoids make up the crude resin of Cannabis. Preparations such as ghanja or hashish are roughly about one-third by weight non-psychoactive water-soluble substances and cellular debris. Another third is non-psychoactive resins such as phenoloic and terpenoid polymers, glycerides, and triterpenes. Only one-fourth to one-third is the cannabinoids. In many Cannabis plants, THC may be only a very small percentage of the total cannabinoids. ((These figures are very approximate. Actual percentages depend on sample material, processing, and extraction procedures. See Table 8 and 9 for percentages of THC in hashish.)) The remainder (5 to 10 percent) of the resin will be essential oils, sterols, fatty acids, and various hydrocarbons common to plants.

    Table 8 - Seized Hashish (a)

    Range of Percentage of
    Greece 1 - 15.8 1.4 - 11.1
    Nepal 1.5 - 10.9 8.8 - 15.1
    Afghanistan 1.7 - 15 1.8 - 10.3
    Pakistan 2.3 - 8.7 6.8(b)

    a Figures compiled from many sources.
    b Only one figure reported

    Table 9 - Relative Percentages of Major Cannabinoids from Hashish and Resin
    Average Percentages of
    Afghanistan 52 36 12
    Burma 15.7 16.3 68
    Jamaica 77.5 9.1 13.4
    Lebanon 32.2 62.5 5.3
    Morocco 55 34.2 10.8
    Nigeria 53.7 9.3 37
    Pakistan 35.7 48.3 16.1
    South Africa 75.6 8.4 16

    a Each row sums to 100%
    _TABLE 9
    The cannabinoids basically do not flow in the plant, nor are they the plant's sap. About 80 to 90 percent of the cannabinoids are synthesised ad stored in microscopic resin glands that appear on the outer surfaces of all plant parts except the root and seed. the arrangement and number (concentration) of resin glands vary somewhat with the particular strain examined. Marijuana varieties generally have more resin glands, and they are larger then resin glands on non-drug varieties.
    Although resin glands are structurally diverse, they are of three basic types. The bulbous type is the smallest (15-30 um ((um is the symbol for a micrometer (or micron), equal to 1/1,000,000 of a meter, or approximately 1/25,000 of an inch.)) or about .0006 to .0012 inches). From one to four cells make up the "foot" and "stalk," and one to four cells make up the "head" of the gland (25). Head cells secrete a resin - presumably cannabinoids - oils, and related compounds which accumulate between the head cells and the outer membrane (cuticle). When the gland matures, a nipple-like outpocket may form on the membrane from the pressure of the accumulating resin. The bulbous glands are found scattered about the surfaces of the above-ground plant parts.
    The second type of gland is much larger and more numerous than the bulbous glands. The are called "capitate," which means having a globular-shaped head. On immature plants, the heads lie flush or appear not to have a stalk and are called "capitate sessile." They actually have a stalk that is one cell high, although it may not be visible beneath the globular head. The head is composed of usually eight, but up to 16 cells, that form a convex rosette. These cells secrete a cannabinoid-rich resin which accumulates between the rosette and its outer membrane. This gives it a spherical shape, and the gland measures from 25 to 100 um across. In fresh plant material about 80 to 90 percent of their contents will be cannabinoids, the rest primarily essential oils (146).
    During flowering the capitate glands that appear on the newly formed plant parts take on a third form. Some of the glands are raised to a height of 150 to 500 um when their talks elongate, possibly due to their greater activity. The stalk is composed mostly of adjacent epidermal tissue. These capitate-stalked glands appear during flowering and form their densest cover on the female flower bracts. They are also highly concentrated on the small leaves that accompany the flowers of fine marijuana varieties. Highest concentration is along the veins of the lower leaf surface, although the glands may also be found on the upper leaf surface on some varieties. The male flowers have stalked glands on the sepals, but they are smaller and less concentrated than on the female bracts. Male flowers form a row of very large capitate glands along the opposite sides of anthers.
    Capitate-stalked resin glands are the only ones visible without a microscope. To the naked eye, this covering of glands on the female flower bracts looks like talcum or dew sprinkled on a fuzzy surface. With a strong hand lens, the heads and stalks are distinct. Resin glands also can be seen on the anthers of the male flowers and on the undersides of the small leaves the intersperse the flower clusters.
    {Figure 17. Upper surface of a small leaf, showing stalked glands.}
    {Figure 18. Resin glands on a stem lie close to the surface beneath the
    cystolith hairs. Hairs always point in direction of growing shoots.}
    Resin glands are not visible until flowers form. The more obvious covering of white hairs seen on stems, petioles, and leaves are not resin glands. They are cystolith hairs of carbonate and silicate which are common to many plants. These sharp-pointed hairs afford the plant some protection from insects and make it less palatable to larger, plant-eating animals.
    In India, to make the finest quality hashish (nup), dried plants are thrashed over screens. Gland heads, stalks and trichomes collect in a white to golden powder which is then compressed into hashish (for hashmaking search section 21 for "hash").
    Resin rarely accumulates in the copious quantities people would lead you to believe. Actually, the plants form a cover of resin glands rather than a coating of resin. Usually this is no more apparent than for the female flowers to glisten with pin-points of light and for the leaves and stems to feel a bit sticky when you run your fingers over them.
    On some fine marijuana strains, resin may become obvious by the end of flowering and seed set. Resins occasionally secrete through pores in the membrane of gland heads. Usually secretion occurs many weeks after the stalked glands appear. The glands seem to empty their contents, leaving hollow spaces (vacuoles) in the stalk and head cells. After secretion, the glands cease to function and begin to degenerate. Gland heads, stalks, and trichomes become clumped together, and the whole flowering surface becomes a sticky mass. For reasons we'll go into later, this is not necessarily desirable. (see sections 20,21.)
    Small quantities of cannabinoids are present in the internal tissues of the plant. The bulk is found in small single cells (non-articulated laticifers) that elongate to form small, individual resin canals. The resin canals ramify the developing shoots, and penetrate the plant's conducting tissue (phloem). Minute clumps of resin found in the phloem are probably deposited by these resin canals. Other plant cells contain insignificant amounts of cannabinoids and probably a good 90 percent of the cannabinoids are localised in the resin glands.
    Cannabinoid synthesis seems to occur primarily in the head and apex of the stalk cells of the resin glands (26). Lacticifers and possibly other plant cells probably contribute by synthesising the simpler molecules that will eventually make up the cannabinoids. Biosynthesis (the way the plant makes the molecules) of the cannabinoids is believed to follow a scheme originally outlined by A.R. Todd in his paper "Hashish," published in 1946 (see Figure 19). In the 1960s the pathway was worked out by Raphal Mechoulam, and confirmed in 1975 by Dr. Shimomura and his associates.

    {Figure 19. Possible biosynthesis of cannabinoids.}
    Notice that all the cannabinoids are their acid forms with a (COOH) carboxyl group at C-2 in the aromatic ring. This group may also appear at C-4 and the compounds are called, for example, THC acid "A" and THC acid "B", respectively. The position of the carboxyl group does not affect the potency, but, in fact, in their acid forms the cannabinoids are not psychoactive. In fresh plant material, cannabinoids are almost entirely inn their acid forms. The normal procedure of curing and smoking the grass (heat) removes the carboxyl group, forming the gas CO2 and the psychoactive neutral cannabinoids. Removing the CO2 in important only if you plan to eat the marijuana. It is then necessary to apply heat (baking in brownies, for example) for the cannabinoids to become psychoactive. Ten minutes of baking marijuana at 200F is enough to convert the THC acids to neutral THC.
    The formation of CBG acid, from which all the other cannabinoids are formed, is initially made from much simpler compounds containing terpene units. The example here is olivetolic acid condensing with a terpene moiety called geranyl pyrophosphate. It is not known whether these are the actual or only precursors to CBG in the living plant.
    Terpenes and related substances are quite light and some of them can be extracted by steam distillation to yield the "essential oil" of the plant (from essence - giving the flavour, aroma, character). Over 30 of these related oily substances have been identified from Cannabis (143). On exposure to light and air, some of the polymerise, forming resins and tars.
    The cannabinoids are odourless; most of the sweet, distinctive, pleasant "minty" fragrance and taste of fresh marijuana comes from only five substances which make up only 5 to 10 percent of the essential oils: the mono- and sesqui-terpenes alpha- and beta-pinene, limonene, myrcene, and beta-phalandrene (144). These oily substances are volatile and enter the air quickly, dissipating with time. Subsequently, the marijuana loses much of its sweetness and minty bouquet.
    The essential oils constitute about .1 to .3 percent of the dry weight of a fresh marijuana sample, or on the order of 10 percent of the weight of the cannabinoids. Essential oils are found within the heads of the resin glands and make up about 10 to 20 percent of their contents in fresh material (146). They have also been detected in the resin canals (laticifers) (31).
    Different samples of Cannabis have essential oils of different composition. This is not surprising given the variability of the plant. Since substances found in the essential oils are, or are related to, substances that are the precursors of the cannabinoids, there is some chance that a relationship exists between a particular bouquet and cannabinoids content. No such relationship is yet known, but it has only been studied superficially. When connoisseurs sample the bouquet of a grass sample, they are basically determining whether it is fresh. Fresh grass mean fresh cannabinoids and less of these are likely to have been degraded to non-psychoactive products.

  14. Pluck the little grapes as it grows...you won;t get all of them..and keep it away from your females...

    The buds will be good!
    And I have been testing over an over again...that hermi seeds give me a very high ratio of females for future grows. So the few that do survive my plucking are used later BUt you do have to move the hermis away from the females.

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