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Leaf Stems are Curling but No Sign of Leaf Clawing

Discussion in 'Sick Plants and Problems' started by Mlrx, Jul 10, 2017.

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  1. #1 Mlrx, Jul 10, 2017
    Hello,

    I am having an issue with my first clone that can hopefully be easily identified by this knowledgeable community.

    My clone is roughly 3 weeks old. Just transplanted yesterday to FFOF. Just today I noticed the stems of the leaves were curling down causing the leaves to droop. There appear to be no signs of clawing on the fan fingers.

    I am worried that it has been overwatered. I had ran water through the FFOF with a good amount of run and let dry for about 8 hours before transplanting. The soil is fairly dry on top with no water droplets seeping when squeezed.

    Also, I did spray some habañero water because I was worried of a mite infestation, but wiped up and excess. Not sure if this played a factor as I have heard it doesn't cause any problems and can be used at any period during the process as long as it doesn't get on the buds during flowering. Just want to give you all the information on how she's been being treated.

    I am unable to find any photos or descriptions that match my situation. I am attaching some before and after photos from the beginning of the day to when I noticed the change. The first is at the beginning of the day, and the next two are separate of many leaves that are showing the same drooping. If you see water on the first picture it is the water before I wiped it up.

    Thank you in advance for any insight.

    Best,
    First time grower
     

    Attached Files:

  2. #2 zxc555, Jul 11, 2017
    I think you are right about it being overwatered - leaves and stems drooping. Other than that leaves and stems look healthy colour.

    Maybe a use finer mist spray for foliar feeding, it looks like the bottom leaves have been showered with a hose.
     
  3. #3 Mlrx, Jul 11, 2017
    Thank you for the response and confirming my suspicions. The leaves are already looking a bit more perky since yesterday so time is really my only friend, right?

    However, I did notice that some of the stems connecting to the leaves have started to turn red. Phosphorus deficiency? I was told by my local hydroponics store that after transplanting I should wait about 2 weeks before adding any more nutrients since the FFOF is full of them. Should I give it time for her to completely set up home in the soil, or just give her what she needs?

    Thanks in advance!


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  4. #4 zxc555, Jul 11, 2017
    Yea you are right again, purple stems will be phosphorous deficiency. It's a bit hard to tell from the pictures because of the lighting, but I think you are quite a way off phosphorous def becoming an issue.

    I'd let it dry out properly first and once it's dried if the purpling has gotten noticeably or severely worse that's when you need to decide if you should be adding more nutes, or perhaps raise PH to increase P uptake over other nutes. The overwatering might have caused the issues with P uptake so once that's fixed, the phosphorous issue may take care of itself.
     
  5. #5 Mlrx, Jul 11, 2017
    Thank you for being so helpful! I will post updates soon if you want to see how it goes! Planning on moving her into flowering in about 2 weeks (5-6 weeks total veg) since my grow space is small.

    Have a good one.


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  6. #6 Mlrx, Jul 21, 2017
    Friendly update! Looking to start flowering in about 2 days (5 weeks total of veg). White pistols(?) are starting to appear and am curious about what that means. I know it means it is a female, but is ok for them to show before flowering?

    Also, is a 2 day dark period required for clones before 12/12, or a bad idea?

    I also would like any input on her current state if anyone has an opinion.

    Thank you!

    [​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG]


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  7. #7 zxc555, Jul 22, 2017
    Hey, some strains will show pistils/sex before you switch over to 12/12 flowering light cycle.

    Not heard of putting clones into a 48 hours dark period before switching the light cycle, sounds a bit strange to me and I can't see any reason for it so would just go straight to 12/12. Just expect the plant to grow up to another 2-3 times in height during flower.

    Overall plants looking good, I don't think the purple stems that are barely visible in the 3rd/5th picture are anything to worry about. The purpling may be caused by lack of Phosphorous but could also be down to temperature swings, or perhaps the strain, but I doubt it to be the latter. Just keep an eye on the older fan leaves with purple stems for signs of yellowing/chlorosis, that'll mean that a phosphorous deficiency is present and it's spreading from the older leaves to the youngest.

    There is the odd leaf in the background that seems like the end tips are starting to claw or hang, so possibly still recovering from overwatering, or starting to get too much nitrogen. It's a bit hard to tell the colour of the leaves under the lighting, but I don't think they look dark to be suffering from nitrogen toxicity yet. Just another thing to watch out for.

    There's one leaf in the 5th picture at the very bottom that looks like it's starting to yellow on the edges, are you able to provide a clearer picture?
     
  8. #8 Mlrx, Jul 22, 2017
    I'll take your advice and skip a dark period. I had put in darkness before seeing your post, but that was 12 hours before so I just turned my lights back on and set the timer to 12/12.

    Purple stems have been persistent even on the main stalk, but hasn't appeared to be a problem until I turned my light on and saw the change it made in the dark.

    The photos attached show the current situation. The top most leaves are showing some yellowing but it is starting from the base of the leaves. I just watered about 2 days ago and the soil is still pretty wet, however, I think it might need nutes. I was given Soul Grow by Aurora Innovations from local hydro store for free. I am not sure if is intended for flowering plants, but I have only started flowering since ~12 hours ago. The solutions is 3-1-1 and was given to me to try to clear up the purple stems, but I haven't used it. Should I wait till it dries out a bit more? Should I even use it? Pictures of the product are below.

    I don't think the leaves are clawing. Whenever they do it is after watering and is only minor so I turn off my fan which solves the problem immediately.

    My biggest concern right now is the yellowing leaves. Any idea?

    [​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG]


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  9. #9 zxc555, Jul 22, 2017
    First thoughts were the bright green at the base of the leaves looks like iron def or lockout. Though I've also seen similar bright green newer growth that normally turns darker green as the plant gets a couple of days older and more new growth comes through. So it might just be best to keep an eye on it, you might have nothing to worry about.

    I think iron itself is a bit of a complex deficiency to be able to identify the cause when it appears though, for me anyway, there could be a number of different reasons; the ones that come to mind in your situation would be cold temperatures, roots have lack of oxygen/poor drainage or too high PH in the soil.

    I doubt it's a deficiency through lack of Iron in your nutrients though, 0.1% seems plenty at 5-10ml. I use Canna range in similar doses and they have only 0.02% but it's Iron-DPTA not EDTA, I'm not so sure about the different types of Iron and chelates, and their potency or benefits so if anyone more clued up wants to clarify?
     
  10. #10 Mlrx, Aug 5, 2017
    UPDATE!!!

    I think she is looking pretty dang beautiful! Concerned that the biggest stems are getting too close to the light, but I will worry about that later. Pics are attached. Any ideas on how many main tops I have? Notice anything weird going on?


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  11. #11 Mlrx, Aug 5, 2017

    [​IMG][​IMG][​IMG]


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  12. #12 Mlrx, Aug 8, 2017
    Hey,

    I am now noticing that on only 3 of my leaves there are browning spots and tiny black balls. I have sprayed some foliage spray around 4-5 days ago and this wasn't happening. I just now noticed it on two of my fan leaves. I don't think it is mites but I am nervous. It is the third week of flower. Any ideas?

    Thank you


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  13. #13 Mlrx, Aug 8, 2017
    [​IMG][​IMG]

    Here are the images. My apologies.


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  14. #14 Djankies, Aug 8, 2017
    Hey Mlrx, your plant looks awesome now! what did you change to get rid of your yellowing new growth? I'm having the same problem at the moment.


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  15. #15 Mlrx, Aug 8, 2017
    Hey,

    Thank you, Djankies! I used that Soul Grow that I got for free from my local hydro store and used it at the recommended measurements during the last week of veg. That was when I was noticing the new yellow growth. What I learned is that they new growth comes in slightly yellow and may not indicate a problem. If you have been seeing this just give it a few days and see how it turns out. I'm not an expert in any way, but that is just my recommendation.

    She does appear to be doing well, but my concern now is the images above. I can't seem to find any thread that explains this problem. I've tried searching "Black balls on fan leaves", "Resin on fan leaves", etc.. I did find one user on here (can't remember the name or thread) that indicated it could possibly be resin production due to high temperatures, but I am not certain. I hope that is the case and not a bug problem.


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  16. #16 Djankies, Aug 8, 2017
    Awesome. It seems to be getting better on my plants, but thats after a flush was recommended to me on here. Seems like that's kind of the brute force catch all solution so didn't get a chance to investigate what specifically was causing my yellowing. Maybe that was it. also have what looks like trichomes forming on the base of some of my fan leaves on some of my healthy plants but didn't consider it to be a problem and thought it was genetic. But I'll keep an eye out for you and let you know if I happen upon any information thanks dude


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  17. #17 Mlrx, Aug 8, 2017
    Thanks man! Let me know when yours is all said and done!


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  18. #18 zxc555, Aug 9, 2017
    Hey Mirx, those latest images look like thrips. The first pic looks like normal thrip damage, with black dots (feces) surrounding the areas they've been eating. Not sure why in the second pic doesn't look like much has been eaten but tiny black dots like that I would think thrips. Would look into using spinosad or neem oil.
     
  19. #19 Mlrx, Aug 9, 2017
    Thanks, zxc555! I just looked them up. I would of never figured that out.

    Would you recommend insecticidal soap from walmart, or something with spinosad?


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  20. #20 zxc555, Aug 9, 2017
    I think it's a bit awkward because the plant is starting flowering, and both insecticidal soap and spinosad are usually applied directly onto the plant.

    I would use the soap and a sponge (Insecticidal soap, spinosad both will work fine though I believe spinosad can be used closer up to the harvest window without affecting taste so much) and I know it would be a pain, but I would definitely try just wiping both sides of all fan leaves before getting the spray out and misting everything - the bud sites. Check it 3-4 days later and if it's getting worse then I'd mist the whole plant. If it's getting better at that point, I'd apply the soap to the leaves again leaving the bud sites dry. Can also cover the top layer of your pot with gardening sand to stop thrips getting in and out, laying eggs in the soil and hatching.
     
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