Ok here's my question, something I've been wondering for awhile. Consider the story of Jesus's crucifixtion. We all know what supposedly happened. But if it was God's plan to have Jesus die for our sins, and God knows everything, there had to be some sort of method behind the madness. So we all know (or at least most of us) that Jesus was turned over to the Romans by his apostle Judas. This is considered the 'ultimate betrayal' of all time. Dante places Judas in the mouth of Satan along with Brutus and Cassius in The Inferno, but Judas clearly has the worst punishment of all. After the betrayal, come the events leading up to and culminating with the crucifixtion, one of the most important events for the Christian faith along with the resurrection.... But, why is Judas the bad guy here? Didn't he have to do this, or the whole religion isn't founded? Our 'sins' aren't cleansed? Shouldn't he be like the MVP here? Why is it necessary that someone had to bear this sort of 'title' as the worst sinner of all time, completing the worst act of all time? Couldn't God have figured out a better way to do this? Am I missing something here?
if judas hadnt done it it still would have happened anyway. whether the romans found jesus on there own or whether he turned himself in the event still would have taken place. that is why judas is looked down on. why didnt God find a different way? why, if judas was a rat in his heart would God change the course of what was to happen to spare him? i guess you could say two birds were killed with one stone. judas felt like shit and tried to give the silver back then hung himself (which is unforgiveable).jesus was crucified on the cross and shed blood for our sins (even yours). what needed to happen happened.in the best possible way i would say
judas hung himself? So u could say he felt guilty for what he had done. Hmm. Then he should go to heaven i think, but what do i know. What's so wrong with suicide that makes it unforgivable. Is it bc u can't repent, when you're dead. so it had to be explained somehow, i guess.
"is it because you cant repent when youre dead" yes , had he not killed himself he would still have had the chance to go to heaven even for selling out jesus.
murdering yourself or anyone else for that matter has nothing good about it. what good could come from you killing yourself? i havent come across one good reason why somebody would take their own life. i guess im curious why some think its no big deal. after youre dead then what do you have? you may not know for sure. can something happen so bad in life that would make someone end theirself?
yeah, idk. I just don't think it's hell worthy I guess...but like what like what if u are going to die anyway like in a zombie situation...u've been bitten what do u do? shoot yourself, or become one of them? I'd fucking blow my brains out.
there are no exceptions to suicide. the movies say you die before your body becomes a zombie so id have to say there would be nothing to worry about.even if youre bitten and dont die or become a zombie immediately dont blow your brains out just have someone lock you in a freezer or something till youre zombified and then they can blow your brains out after your soul leaves your body
suicide/euthanasia's kind of a slippery slope, but I think there are some exceptions where it should be ok. ie patient's suffering greatly. I know pain is how you know you are alive, but there's gotta be somewhere to draw the line.
Well TheRiz, you'll be pleased to know that the 'Gospel of Judas' puts a different spin on things. In it Jesus asks him directly to betray him, and the whole story has an entirely different spin to it. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gospel_of_Judas http://www.nationalgeographic.com/lostgospel/?fs=www9.nationalgeographic.com This particularly interests me as I've always felt that Jesus was acting out the prophesies on purpose to have himself known as the Messiah, rather than them just being events that happened naturally. He played out events that mirrored local legends about Moses and others, saying in their action that he was as powerful as them. He purposely and continuously set himself up to be crucified and I think his motive was simply that he believed he would enter into a special state of EARTHLY union with god (similar to enlightenment, instance of which are recorded as far back as 2,000 BC and before) if he took it that final step of crucifixion, because that was the legend. It didn't come "Father, why hast thou forsaken me?" and that he had a drug passed to him on the cross (this part is an old theory) to help him feign death. It seems strange that he should supposedly ascend to Heaven and then get seen by people looking very much worse for wear later on. After that he just fades from prominence. Interesting stuff. MelT
the canon is not the christian bible...and nowhere in the bible does itsay jesus asked him to turn him in. judas was taught agreat deal by jesus so he was awareof right and wrong biblically speaking. what imgetting at is that he wouldnt hang himself if he had simply done what jesus wished of him. jesus was betrayed by judas.judas did it for money not because he was commanded to by christ. if it was what jesus wanted him to do then he wouldnt have been offered money he would have simply went to the romans andtold them where they could find him(jesus). read john 3:16 jesus didnt set himself upto be crucified ......for God so love the world that HE(God) GAVE HIS ONLY BEGOTTEN SON God gave jesus to be crucified for our sins. moses wasnt powerful.anything that moses did (part the red sea,turn his staff into a serpent,etc.) was Gods power. and if you believe moses and jesus existed then you should know that if anyone wanted to be like the other then it was moses who would want to be jesus not the other way around because why would jesus the son ofGod want to be anyone else? does it say anywhere that jesus was given a drug to die quicker or feelless pain?no it doesnt...why would jesus accept such a drug? wouldnt killing himself faster be suicide? and would jesus of all people commit suicide? highly,highly doubt it if its not in the book then its not important or accurate. theories arent needed, actually theories are the same as personal opinions which DO NOT matter.
Too bad there is no shred of evidence of Moses outside the Bible...and also, you'd think if he was wandering in the desert for 40 years with some Jews that they would leave some archealogical evidence....o wait there is none....cause it's not true.... anyway, come on, Judas didn't do it for the money what a cop out....you're saying that money = the equivalent of the crucifixtion of christ....all so lame.
See, this is the really sad thing. 'If it's not in the book then it's not real' That's what this argument is really about, not the fine detail. Blind acceptance of a book and set of beliefs that's cost the lives of literally MILLIONS of people in the last 2,000 years. That's not really what you'd call moral, just, or the 'true religion', is it? But despite that you still blindly accept it without thought. And one day somebody's gong to say to you, "Hey bubba, them muslims is in the bottom 40 agin', let's go get the pick-up and some beer and go shoot the crap out of 'em!!" And you'll get your gun, or your Sherman tank and go do it, because anybody who doesn't believe in the bible just HAS to be wrong, don't they? What you're saying is the usual cop-out that everybody uses who isn't prepared to look at the real background to the compilation of the bible. Not, "I looked at the evidence and upon weighing it up I thought it was wrong". Just a blind acceptance of everything the bible says as true. For anyone less blinkered and feeling somewhat oppressed by the nuttiness of much of modern christianity, do a google on the texts that were omitted from the bible and also read about the inconsistencies it contains. Before I write this next part, I'd like to say that this isn't just opinion. I majored in ancient civilisations and writing systems, with a particular focus on Egyptian history. The Egyptians wrote every major - and many minor - event down, even their defeats (with a little positive spin of course). At NO point in their history do they mention Moses, plagues, rivers turning red, OR an exodus of millions of Jews from their land and the pursuit of same, or the loss of an entire army in the Red Sea. Not anywhere, not even a hint. The series of events the Bible describes happening to the Egyptian nation would have been so overwhelming, so terrifying that not only would the Egyptians have written it down, but also visitors from other countries would also have written about it too. Tales of the power of Moses and his god would have spread world wide and be talked about in legends from tens of cultures. But no, it's just in the bible and nowhere else. Nothing, anywhere. And believe me, I have looked. And interestingly recent excavations show that far from all Jews being expelled or escaping from Egypt, a considerable number of them continued to live, worship and prosper in Egypt after the supposed Exodus took place. We can NOT believe the bible when it was written by people who were solely interested in creating a legend. Today's christianity, even the supposed (and I mean supposed) whereabouts of holy sites is down to one woman, 'saint' Helena. This woman tortured, murdered and bribed her way across the holy land looking for religious artifacts and sites to build churches on. But the churches weren't to glorify god, but to spread the word about the importance of her husband, Emperor Constantine. A scribe who accompanied her on her travels said that she was less interested in the holiness of places she found, more interested in them as places to erect a symbol of her family importance. If you want to know why you believe some of the half-assed things you do, read about this woman and how she constructed the christian legend. But of course you wont know any of this, or even allow yourself to believe it, because it's not in the bible. So, where DO you stand on evolution? MelT
do you know how long after jesus constantine was.... constantine was a roman who adopted christianity after being devout to the greek gods and so on blah blah...i could be wrong on that but who cares....constantine is irrelivant in this conversation... what do you think the bible is? its a recording of things that happened in history.... let me get this straight though...youll believe what the egyptians wrote down about their history but you wont believe a single thing from the bible..... they are both the same thing..recordings of the past... and riz....what the hell do you expect to find in a massively massive desert some 3-4 thousand years later? an old sandal,or skull bone, or what? and it states that judas WAS bribed with silver pieces (30) . where did you see me say money=The crucifiction? i dont believe i ever said that or even implied it.. wow!!! you put words in the bible and now your putting them in my mouth!! nowonder youre getting nowhere fast....you cant quote anything as is in its original context and meaning.....youve attemped to change practically everything youve mentioned....misquoteing verses,misquoting me,taking the bible out of context...can you even get 1 thing correct?
The point, my apprentice, is that God had to bribe Judas with silver to get his master plan, the crucifixtion, to work? That's what he came up with? No actually that's all the story tellers could come up with.
God had to bribe judas?...once again...another bit of info you created yourself.... when you run out of info i see you like to fabricate your own..... to bribe is to sin (i hope you would know this) so tell me again why God, a perfect being would sin? He has never sinned nor will He ever. another idea of yours shot to shit.... riz i dont think you know enough about the bible or the religion to be talking about it...youre constantly getting the stories wrong and now youre adding your own parts to the stories. i hope a lot of members are reading all this , at the rate youre going youre gonna have a reputation in the city for best storyteller
I am a christian and my church has told me that in order to go to heavin you must be baptised and repent... and that there is no hell that god wouldn't create anything that he would live without. In other words every one goes to heavin because you cant create something that you dont like. Its basicly not your choice if you go to heavin or not the one who made you chooses.
your church is misleading you...it says nowhere in the bible MUST you be baptized to go to heaven...and they are also wrong about hell...it says word for word that hell exists and that it is a lake of fire and brimstone and burning sulphur. if there is a place for believers(heaven) then there is aplace for the nonbelievers also(hell). what you said made no sense.first you say "the ONLY way to get to heaven is to be baptized and repent" then you say there is a heaven but there is no hell" after that you follow with, "everyone goes to heaven" so first you CAN go to heaven if you do what you should implying that if you dont do what you should you will not go to heaven.finally you say, everyone goes to heaven....saying they have no choice...id leave your church immediately if i were you. baptizism symbolizes rebirth . thats all.. any church that tells you theres a heaven but no hell isnt worthyof calling themselves a church. it says in the bible as i said earlier "..what fellowship hath the righteous with the unrighteous" so why would your church tell you that everyone goes to heaven? why are all of these undeserving people getting the same reward as those who lived there whole life as they should? ps: if your parents tell you to do something and you dont do it you get punished right? well if you dont obey God and do as you should then you will be punished....and this is why hell was created....as punishment for those who deny Him. make sense to you?
Again, you're missing the point, the fact that God's 'master plan' involved someone giving into their greed in order to reach the crucifixtion is just ludacris...that was all he could think of? Don't tell me God didn't know Judas was going to take the bribe, cause surely this plan was set in motion by him, cause he is all knowing, and all powerful and all this and all that.... *God in the drawing room, creating his master plan for 'sacrificing his only Son.' God: Hmmm....how can I get Jesus on that cross....YES! I know! I'll have Judas give in to a bribe....perfect plot line!
youre so funny guy.... your saying that since God KNOWS what will happen in the future He is the one who made it happen? He knows when the next time you take a shit will be so does that mean Hes making you shit at precisely that time or would that be your digestive system deciding when its time to boo boo? He knows judas is a pos backstabber and that hell betray jesus so that MUST mean He made judas do it huh.....lol thats hilarious this goes back to having the power to decide what we do with our own life...He wont interfere...and He definently wont brainwash you to rat out jesus.. you said earlier today that judas wasnt bribed (because i guess you didnt read the whole story).you learned today that he was bribed with silver and in only minutes after finding that out you already have a new theory that judas was a marionette and God controlled the strings.....wow..a theory a day keeps the...or wait.......lol so am i missing the point or are you just making a bad one? i vote the second one. ill give you an easy way out of this...you dont believe and maybe you never will so you can leave it at that and believe what you want ...you cant prove me wrong without having proof yourself and you definently cant get me to denounce my faith. i on the other hand wont change one bit, im still travelling down the same path i just stopped to preach to the non believers on my way.. so which one of us has actually wasted their time? the nonbeliever that tried to prove his side without proof itself or the believer who was doing something he would do any other day no matter what? this has been a waste of YOUR time only..im willing to continue this for another year providing you dont run out of ideas and as long as you keep misquoting the bible as you are. this is a joke to you..not me..so drag it out as long as you want.