Islam, Redux

Discussion in 'Religion, Beliefs and Spirituality' started by Zylark, Sep 15, 2007.

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  1. I\'m theismophobic, but what can I do? The bastards are everywhere...
     
  2. religious bigotry and intolerance in all it\'s glory.
     
  3. What are you proposing, if not genocide?
     
  4. We did not defeat the Nazis, my friend, we just relocated their headqurters futher west.

    Western governments are solely responsible for the hatred most islamic extremists exploit. Western governments have not had a clear conscience in middle eastern affairs for many generations, being the single most debilitating social factor in the region. We steal from them, and install dictator puppets and call it democracy, and then wonder why they are mad at us.

    By the way, democracy is a beautiful concept, if you see it being practiced anywhere on earth, let me know, because I\'ve been in the USA so long, I\'ve forgotten what it looks like.
     
  5. We\'re a Republic not a Democracy dude.
     
  6. With democratically elected representation.
     
  7. I hear George Bush...shh, quiet... if your silent you can hear his moans of pleasure in the thread.
     
  8. So now being critical of islam equals being a neocon, a Bush supporter?

    Give me a break. I\'m just as critical of say christianity, especially of the evangelical kind. What do that make me? A communist too?

    Instead of constructing your little strawman, why not debate the issue at hand. Is or is not Islam a violent medieval ideology masquarading as religion?

    And when some ideology (or religion) encourages violence as part of its dogma, should we just sit back and respect that? Don\'t debate it due to some political correct bullshit?
     
  9. No, it makes you a genocidal maniac. And I\'m not the most politically correct person so... barking up the wrong tree man. And no, most of Islam is NOT into violence. Religious tolerance should be something you look into.
     
  10. Oh that is priceless. Genocidal maniac. When the US fought against communism, did that make all the US presidents and citizens after WW2 genocidal maniacs too?

    This is fighting an idea, a superstition. Not encouraging mass slaughter. Fighting ideas can be done in many ways, and war is the last resort. Besides, not all living in islam infested areas are all that keen on the idea of islam theocracy. Hell, if free polls and voting were allowed in Iran, I am sure a substancial majority would be against their current theocracy and want a level of freedom comparable to ours in the western world.

    I don\'t want war with any people or country. I do however want religious theocratic zealots to feel the pain they impose on the societies they control. That means intervention. These people are not to be reasoned with, as is proven again and again. They need to be ousted.

    As have been done in Afghanistan. The Taliban is out on their asses, chased down and hunted. Despite still troubles in that country, in all real terms that country is on a better path now than they were before. Womens rights have been restored, academic freedom, restored. Free elections, restored. Barbaric punishments removed. Religious overt intolerance, removed.

    If we are to survive as a species, religious zealotry and fundamentalism need to be marginalized. Like we did to fascist and communist zealotry and fundamentalism.

    We got this one planet, and there is not room on it for those that want to destroy the society, tolerance and freedom that is needed for us to survive. As I\'ve said, want to give shelter to islamic theocracy, go live in Iran, experience it. Then come back to me and tell the tales of how great such a society is.

    Want to see progress, then point one on your agenda should be getting rid of dogma from popular culture. First on that list is religious dogma, and Islam in particular. Whilst naturally keeping a keen eye on all other dogma.
     
  11. listen to your words man, \"Islam infested\". Your a bigot, and sounding more like a \"neocon\" with every sentence.

    How do you wipe out an entire religion without genocide?
     
  12. Well, the western world is christianity infested. Now, do I support genocide of all of western society?

    Maybe we are talking around each other here, but I believe religion to be a mind virus. Using medical terms as infestation is thus quite natural to me. The particular strain of that virus of faith I\'m talking about in this thread is named islam. I\'ve been in countless other threads discussing that other strain, christianity.

    So, should I just focus on christianity, coz that is politically correct? Is there a special reason why not islam should be examined and scrutinized in the same way as I do christianity?

    Better yet, explain to me why it is wrong to point out just how violent a religion as islam is? There is a lot of religions you know. Why is it that Buddhism, Hinduism, Janeism, hell, even Christianity do not (in general) incite people to violence and murder and mutilation, whilst islam do? Where did you last read about a buddhist fatwah? A christian price on the head of critics and cartoonists? A hindu killing of a convert?
     
  13. Our world revolves around violence...it always has.

    Getting rid of religion will not get rid of the violence.

    Islam is not the problem...Christianity is not the problem...

    Violence has deeper roots than religion.
     
  14. No, of course not. However, it would eliminate the mindset that faith-based conflict is justified, subsequently eliminating quite a lot of violence. After that, we\'d just have to tackle wars that are fueled by corporate greed, which the people are slightly less willing to support.:wave:

    And for those of you crying \"bigot\"...how fucking dense can you be? Stop derailing this thread with your politically correct swill. Faith is by no means beyond reproach simply by virtue of being faith, and if the murderous tendencies of muslim collectives can\'t wake the world up to that, then what will?

     
  15. You are entirely correct. Violence is part of what we are unfortunately. Though, violence starts where dialogue ends. Not to borrow to much from Richard Dawkins, but what will you think will happen if (when) the israelis put force to measure and oust the muslims from the temple mount?

    Two religions without possibility to negotiate reasonably. To make concessions.

    If it weren\'t for the religion, palestinians and jews in Israel might discover that they are both not just human, but also dependent upon eachother. That they got a lot in common. That what stands between them is iron age myth, amplified by modern quest for territory.

    If they could recognize eachother, they might reach an agreement. That won\'t happen as long as islam sets the premise.

    In many regards this is the US fault actually, undermining the PLO and the Oslo accord. A secular solution was on the table, but Israel and the US neglected it, playing into the hands of the extremist islamists and zionists both.
     


  16. I agree that religion isnt the entire problem. Religion is more of an easy avenue for the fucked up people in the world to justify the fucked up things they say, think, and do.

    Religion is nothing more than fuel to the fire, although its the most potent and deadly fuel source out there.

    The danger regarding religion is that it brings small groups together, while dividing us all as a whole at the very same time....its a very clever beast. When you have these groups of people (extremists) who take their beliefs to the next level, the loss of life is usually quite substantial.....as opposed to the guy who steals the old ladies purse in times square.

    So yes, violence will always be around...but the level, scale, and extent of violence that religion allows is very different from typical human violence.
     
  17. There are a few things you need to need to understand before you start speaking your asshole bigotry. first of all, I personally don\'t understand how you think democracy is the ideal form of government, the founding fathers of our country relized this and feared democracy...democracy means that 51 percent of the population controls 49 percent and I think that the majority of people are pretty dumb...... another thing you must understand that the whole entire reason there is exreme muslims in the world is people of the \"western\" world in the frist place. not recently but after world war two and before that we as in the UN split countries and created new ones, we had no business at all doing this like that for example creating Isreal, I have no problem with Isreal or a jewish country in the middle east but how it came about was a problem. The UN created Isreal after world war two out of already existing countries partly because of the nazis killing the jews during world war two, which brings us to the point of nazism but thats another topic.
     



  18. Not quite.

    I\'d say the reason there are muslim extremists (same goes for any other extremist religious groups) in the world is simply because these people are deranged.

    We\'re talking about suicidal maniacs with religious and political agendas. If they didnt hate the west (americans), they would find someone else to hate.

    The problem doesnt lie within one country or the other, it lies within our inability (as humans) to tolerate. Religion only complicates and magnifies this inability, and it provides a cause or a reason for these extremists to continue spreading hate and violence throughout the world. You must understand this before you can even begin to understand anything else regarding this subject.
     
  19. I just think it\'s wrong to connect isolated events and extremism to an entire religion.

    That\'s overgeneralization. You\'re walking on eggshells dude...

    There\'s a fine line between skepticism of religion, and religious intolerance.

    There\'s nothing honorable about trying to wipe religion from the face of the earth.

    Not to mention it can\'t be done.

    It amazes me at how people that don\'t understand religion attempt to objectify it. Religion is a concept, not a thing. It cannot be destroyed. It cannot be pinned down. Even if you\'re \"not religious\", you still have the same thought processes as the religious folk out there. And of course, atheism is a religion. For all intents and purposes it could be known as \"the Church of Reason\":D
     
  20. Well, let\'s be far, it\'s not exactly a couple of isolated events -- more like a trend.

    \"Atheism is a religion, like not collecting stamps is a hobby\"
     
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