Is This Potassium Deficiency?

Discussion in 'Sick Plants and Problems' started by Dingus, May 22, 2013.

  1. Hi guys i believe i have a potassium deficiency, and ive tried to correct it but to no avail. If it isn't potassium then help me diagnose and solve this, thanks!

    Medium: 1 gal 40:60 coco coir : perlite
    Nutes: GH maxibloom 7g/gal
    Lighting (veg cab) two 23w 5000k cfls and a 23w 2700k cfl
    Temps: 65-85 (i know, im actually receiving two fans in the mail tomorrow)
    Rh: 30%-68%
    Strain: nirvana northern lights

    She started off amazing with rapid growth. One time early on i fed her with regular 7g/gal maxibloom + 2g epsoms, this feed was leftover from my flowering girl, and i was pretty sure a little extra mag wouldn't hurt her and i didn't want to waste this mix and make another gallon just for her. Soon after she began to yellow in between her leaf veins and then the edges browned, curled downwards and then more brown spots appeared along with more browning/burning until the leaf dies. The whole deficiency process takes awhile on each leaf so ive been trying to correct it.

    I have flushed her already with 2gal of plain phd water and then fed her only a small amount of regular 7g/gal. It didnt work i suppose as the deficiency is still progressing.

    All new growth looks good but the deficiency is definitely still moving up the plant.

    Please help. Peace and love. View attachment 1209105 image.jpg

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    • Funny Funny x 1
  2. What's the ph run-off, if you'll check that you'll find you answer?
  3. Its coco coir so runoff pH is inaccurate. I can't do a medium pH test cuz im out of distilled water, but its entire life has been on calibrated 5.8 with a 5.6 once a week. I water when she is feeling light, which is like every two days.
  4. It appears to look like it's P and Mg deficit.
  5. You're problem seems obvious to me and it has nothing to do with ph. People make much to big of a deal out of ph. 
    Name brand nutrients have all the stuff you need so if you are showing deficiencies it's either  root problems from over watering, not enough nutes or wrong nutes in you're case, and or you need an additive if you use RO water or distilled water.
    I don't know why you are using maxi bloom when your in the veg state but you should be using maxi grow. This is probably your main problem. 
    Also since your using distilled water you need a calcium/magnesium additive. The most popular is called CalMag. You must buy that and use at least a half a teaspoon per gallon. Forget the epson. You will never know the right amount from reading all the  internet myths on here. CalMag has magnesium in it but i like to use a little more so I buy Sea Mag. I add half a teaspoon of calmag and half tsp of seemag to my RO water to make the perfect water to add nutes to.
    I used the maxi products before and they didn't work well. I found maxi grow you had to use at least the max amount.
  6. ^^^^^so you're saying that the ability for the plant to uptake nutrients (ph) should not be attended to or even checked as a reference. It doesn't matter what he uses if the ph is off she will not be able to utilize it. your input is appreciated but don't discredit something that is proven. ph should always be checked anyway. if he used ur suggestion, it would only add to the problem if his ph is off.
    everything else is secondary to ph level. you could have the best light, nutes, genetics, everything. but if ur ph is off. none of that matters. jm $.02
    Your absolutely right my friend, ph is the most important element in cannabis cultivation... without  ph correction for this dude or anyone else problems only present themselves on a regular basis. Good call!
  8. #8 ndavisenterprise, May 24, 2013
    Last edited by a moderator: May 24, 2013
    Here is my input my cannabis friend! 
    Great call TheAnwser21!!!
    Dingus, I think you have a Mg toxicity, which has locked out calcium which locks out your Mg and it is causing the mag deficiency signs, rolled up fringes and the weak stems, foliage and I assume exceptionally slow growth (calcium).
    I say flush to above 5.5ph or 50ppm, give it a better NPK nuit....something for veg.
    I give my plants 250ppm of cal-mag with 50ppm of epsom salt daily. So twice a day I fill up my rez with 300ppm cal-mag-sulfer water until week four of flower. Then I just use the epsom salt as a finishing agent and my NPK and additives/sweetners. I am just suggesting you water with a concentration like that every time you water ( not twice daily).
    I think you just burnt the hell out of the girl with the epsom salt my friend....
    You NEED a TDS meter too!!!!!! And yes, PH is essential!
    I hope that helps ya! 
  9. #9 Dingus, May 24, 2013
    Last edited by a moderator: May 24, 2013
    Sorry i did not put this in the op. maxibloom looks like its only for bloom but at 7g/gal it contains all the npk needed for both veg and bloom. This is the lucas dry formula. You can check it out at ive had mg def before and it begins with yellowing on the outer edges, a lighter brown burning and interveinal yellowing until the leaf loses vigor- burns/dries curling upwards. This deficiency has no severe yellowing before the curling and burning downwards. There is interveinal yellowing but not like a mg def in my past experience.

    When she started showing deficiency was actually after i gave her leftover 7g/gal + 2g epsoms from my bigger girl in flowering, not trying to waste the leftover mix. Epsom salt is magnesium sulfate. What i thought happened was that i messed with her cation bank and locked out potassium, another alkaline metal. So i figured a flush and then add back regular 7g/gal to fix it but it didn't work.

    I couldnt have burnt the hell out of her with epsoms because it was literally once, not even 1 tsp/gal and three weeks ago. She only started actually burning and curling DOWNWARDS this week. before she interveinally turned lighter green. Growth has never been slow honestly. Her stems are strong but her growth has been really stretch, and this is under cfls within 3". I was honestly hoping that the flush and re feed like normal would fix her and she would grow out of it, but it is not the case unfortunately.

    I know i need a ppm meter but its really not a necessity with lucas formula. Thats not to say it isn't literally first on the shopping list though.
    Thanks for your guys' help, so far i really appreciate it.

    Also but.. @^ this guy (17 posts) above sorry but i don't think you understand how root systems work. Mg def locking out cal locking out mg literally doesn't make sense. Ca is NOT locked out. Ca def shows in the new growth as spotting. You're high bro.
  10. #10 Dingus, May 24, 2013
    Last edited by a moderator: May 24, 2013
    Also this^. And my pH is most definitely on point because it has never once been not at 5.8 with occasional 5.6 i do this because the pH within the medium goes up over time, so 5.8-6 should be covered. I get it calibrated at the hydro store literally every week, even though i us the calibration storage solution which keeps the accuracy perfect. She has never shown pH lockout. I know what general pH lockout complicated by adding more nutes looks like. Check my first grow in my sig at the end. She is completely green and healthy aside from the single element deficiency, not even a red stem (other than on the top of the leaf stem connecting the leaves to the branch). Even this redness is on only the biggest leaves. ALL GREEN.
  11. #11 mmman, May 24, 2013
    Last edited by a moderator: May 24, 2013
    Until you can check you ph run-off forget the ph going in, that's trivial at the moment, get some strips or something to check the run-off so we can get you back on track.
    EDIT: realized you do have ph equipment but don't won't to check without distilled water... geez.
  12. BTW: forget the distilled water and run whatever you can through until a little bit appears and check the run-off... you can always correct later since your watering so frequently.
  13. #13 ndavisenterprise, May 24, 2013
    Last edited by a moderator: May 24, 2013
    That is a fact, I am  high! But that is beside the point.
    There is truth in the words I typed, you might have missed understood what I was trying to say.
    Until you get some good testing equipment, you'll have no idea where you stand. I agree with mmman.
    I measure in volume not weight so the 2g throws me off but sounds quite high per gallon.
    Good luck with your fight on this one bub...
  14. Its not that i dont want to do the slurry test, i do!! Im literally out of distilled water though, which is what i need to do the test. Again, in coco pH runoff is not accurate of the medium pH. Do yall understand the jam im in right now?

    While it is true i do not know the mediums current pH, its been fed properly calibrated its entire life. I wasnt calibratin odten enough before and i fucked up my big girl. So now that it is calibrated I KNOW its a deficiency and not simply pH lockout. I just don't know which deficiency!!! Thats why i wanted to know if anyone here has dealt with K def and if this is it. K Def in pictures and descriptions ive seen and read most closely match up with symptoms, but the regular K def fix didnt work!!

    I specified the curling downwards because MG curls upwards, the curled brown tips are most definitely curling down, like K def.
    Thanks for your input guys i really do appreciate it
  15. I can see in the last pic that the leaf fringe curl up (most cases heat or praying for mag), purpling stem and the tip curl down (calcium). Until you know the Ph of your root zone, your just guessing.
    We are just trying to help. Use what fits your grow my friend. I tend to have perdy successful grows even though I only I have "17 post" here.
    We want you to succeed this grow too and bring that heifer back around!!!!
  16. #16 Dingus, May 24, 2013
    Last edited by a moderator: May 25, 2013
    yeah there might be one or two leaves curling upwards, but for the most part they are curling down. I fucked with one or two, like one of those rubber flipper things, you turn it inside out and put it on a flat surface and it flies up. I mean I understand that I don't have definite pH of root zone, but we really aren't just guessing. Its a scholarly estimate based on what i've done and logged in my note book. Root zones don't just randomly become pH of 4 or 7 when its constantly being fed at 5.8. Coco coir has a natural buffer which helps it stay between 5-7 as well.

    Anyway, It very well could be not K def, but a MG like you guys are saying. Not all strains show the same type of deficiency in exactly the same way, and also leaf shape would make it look different. If you guys really think its mg def, I can hit her with more epsoms, or GH Cal mag+

    I'll add some pics later to this post.

    Edit: pics added, as you can see tips point downwards. The pics of the stem show how everything is green and healthy except for the def affecting the leaves. Those two stem shots also show the top red tinge to a big main fan leaf's stem, as well as how on the bottom its green like normal. Im pretty sure red tinge on the top of the leafstem is pretty normal. Ive definitely seen totally healthy plants with red tinge on the tops of leafstems

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    Curling downward tips of older leaves are also indicative of P deficit.
  18. BTW: I believe K deficit is indicative if tips turning upwards and not downwards as you suggested, and what's keeping you from purchasing a bottle of distilled water to do the run-off so we can get at your issue?
  19. I awkwardly live closer to a hydro store than a supermarket. I only go food shopping once every two weeks
  20. Why not go ahead and boil a half gallon of water, let it cool, pour it through and let's get this done?   :confused_2:

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