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Is this legit or BS? (extacting thc with chocolate?)

Discussion in 'Weed Edibles' started by Rotties4Ever, Mar 22, 2012.

  1. #1 Rotties4Ever, Mar 22, 2012
    Last edited by a moderator: Mar 22, 2012
    This guy throws like 2g of kief in melted chocolate and says
    that it works....

    [ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VaG8h7Fbh1E]Making Chocolatey THC - Theobroma-hydrocannabinol - YouTube[/ame]

    can anyone verify
    that you can extract thc into chocolate
    i know chocolate has oil and fats and shit
    but im skeptical

    ive never heard of this....
     
  2. I'm pretty sure this works, I've heard of it before. Sorry I dont have much info.
     
  3. pretty sure it is legit, could be wrong though. He says it has fat in it so I would imagine it works
     
  4. thc dissolves in fats and oils - lots of those in chocolate!

    so, yeah, it works.
     
  5. a quick search engine turned out something...

    Make your own Cannabis chocolate - UK420

    reading the comments, it seems promising

    hopefully someone can confirm this on gc.
     
  6. Unfortunately the video is Not Legit. :)


    If you're not all that concerned with the 'why' and just want the 'how' skip below.. some people are interested in the mechanics, this is for them. :wave:


    It's certainly physically possible to toss your good kief or dry-sift (noooo!!! :eek: ) into warmed chocolate and hope for the best, but if it was just as easy as tossing kief into a bowl of melted chocolate for fifteen to thirty minutes, then ALL edibles would be that easy. :p


    Just like eating raw hash, if you eat and waste enough material, you can eventually get some effects...

    However, eating raw or virtually raw cannabis works best for patients with low tolerance, and it relies in part on the placebo effect. It also requires that you eat multiple times the amount required per dose, to only hopefully achieve something close to the desired effect.
    The true sensations (beyond placebo) do not kick in nearly as quickly as a bioavailable oil, the cannabinoids take longer to absorb and travel further in your tract all the way into the intestines 'and lower' before penetrating many cells, primarily bypassing the liver, meaning the overall sensations (provided by the little material that you don't pass entirely 'in one end, and out the other' without absorption), will not be nearly as powerful, or as long-lasting, as a mere fraction!! of the same potency, that has been activated and then processed properly, at the right temperatures, for an adequate amount of time, in oil or another pure edible solvent.




    To make canna or hash chocolate, you need to make oil, or a highly absorbable solution using an edible solvent, first, just like you would with any other edible.

    Cannabis glandular material is notoriously difficult for the body to absorb, even after being activated, even when in the form of a sticky or warm tacky concentrate such as BHO. A concentrate can certainly be a little easier to absorb than flowers or dry-sift, but it's much closer in effect and efficiency to the simple flowers, than it is to a properly made edible oil.



    The video in question is basically along the lines of just tossing hash, into brownie batter... which is also not how good hash brownies are made. :eek:
    It's not just a simple matter of extracting and stripping potency from the inert plant matter, it needs to be activated, then processed into a form that our bodies can readily absorb!

    This is why, in spite of the fact that edible cannabis can be MUCH more powerful than smoking the same material, we still have loads of dosage discrepency, and rumors suggesting that you need to 'eat more than you smoke' to achieve the desired effect, which simply isn't true unless your cutting WAY too many corners! :smoke:




    There are a few things very wrong with what he's doing and suggesting... firstly he's not even activating or decarbing the material from what he describes, and in that little time and heat exposure, especially while submerged in chocolate, it's not even close to becoming active let alone bioavailable by the time he's finished. Which brings up the second point, that he is not promoting any amount of bioavailability. And a small but important note, if you get water in your chocolate it's going to ruin it initially, and more than triple the time it takes to 'repair' the consistency so it can set up properly once cooled.
    Certain chocolates have been 'treated' with other oils and lecithins to lessen (but not entirely fix) this effect when water contamination occurs, but true chocolate can seize up horribly with a single drop of water, and turn into a much larger pain to repair!






    --------------------




    How the experts and professionals make 'real' canna and hash chocolate; :hello:


    You have two options, 'gourmedible' or 'medible'....


    (Again, if you don't care about the 'why', then just know that cocoa butter is more traditional for pure chocolate, but it does not create or promote the same high level of absorption achieved with coconut oil, and it requires slightly longer processing to compensate for being a somewhat inferior solvent much like olive or grapeseed oils).


    'Gourmedible', meaning, you can use the oil source that would be most traditional and sacrifice some potency.

    Or, 'medible', a highly effective edible, in which you have used an ideal oil source for both breaking down cannabis glandular material, as well as for promoting the best absorption, such as coconut oil. Coconut oil is especially PERFECT for making hash or canna oil, specifically for use with chocolate, because it is solid at room temperature, until 76 f.

    Combined with the cocoa butter in the chocolate you'll be using, with a melting point of about 93 f alone (and higher due to the cocoa solids), you have a total melting point of around 85- 90+/- f, depending how much or little coconut oil you use.
    It gives the chocolate itself, a wonderful taste, texture and 'mouth feel', and imparts a little extra sweetness as it penetrates and overwhelms your taste buds much more easily than cocoa butter alone, for some of the very same reasons that coconut oil absorbs more easily once inside your tract.



    These will help with the oil making process...


    BadKat's Highly Activated & Bioavailable, Med-Grade Cannabis Concentrate (Edible & Smokable recipes included... similar to BHO, but made with food grade/drinking alcohol)


    -Medical Grade Cannabis Concentrate-

    [​IMG]




    BadKat's Highly Activated & Bioavailable, Med-Grade Hash Oil (starting with dry-sift hash, same as capsule recipe, oil can also be used for cooking)


    Med-Grade Hash Oil



    [​IMG]





    But again, if you want true chocolate that is only 'adulterated' by the potency you seek, you can use cocoa butter as seen below.
    You use the exact same process/es as described in the above tutorials, but simply exchange the coconut oil for cocoa butter! My only recommendation for improvement, is that you heat process your 'oil' for at least an additional 40 minutes to make up for its shortcomings as an edible solvent (it is just as good as say, olive or grapeseed oil, due to its make-up, but it is not as efficient or effective as coconut oil, palm kernel oil, or to a lesser extent clarified butter.)



    [​IMG]



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    [​IMG]



    [​IMG]




    It (and its coconut counterpart) can be used for a variety of delicious canna recipes, either to supplement the potency of canna oil, or as the main or sole source of potency. :hello:



    [​IMG]



    [​IMG]



    [​IMG]



    [​IMG]



    [​IMG]



    [​IMG]


    (Canna Chocolate, filled with Raspberry (or Coffee... we make them often, can't recall which we used with these!) Canna Caramel)

    [​IMG]



    [​IMG]



    [​IMG]



    [​IMG]


    And my favorite....


    -Holiday ~Hash Liqueur~ Cordials-
    (a recipe for tempering chocolate can be found here, simply add your gently pre-warmed hash oil to the just-melted chocolate, slowly blend, and temper away)



    [​IMG]



    [​IMG]



    [​IMG]



    [​IMG]





    Sorry for the long post... hope this clears things up! :wave:
     
  7. i never tried it myself, but i would assume it's about as good as firecrackers since most chocolate i checked had about 30% fat in it, about as much as nutella or peanut butter.
     
  8. BadKittySmiles...
    Your missing a few things that I did that counteract your critique.

    The video was no continuous, I break for some time.
    The Kief is left in the chocolate, so when I bake with it, it will decarb further.
    The chocolate I chose to use was (from memory) 17% fat.
    I double boiled until the mixture came to temperature according to my chef friends advice, and until all the kief had dissolved.
    You baking is no doubt better and more refined.
     
  9. #9 BadKittySmiles, Apr 2, 2012
    Last edited by a moderator: Apr 2, 2012

    No worries, those methods do work for some people. :)


    By using lesser and diluted oil sources however, and by skipping the pre-decarb, (which can take hours, and hours once submerged, coated in, and protected by the oil, instead of the 20 - 30 minutes at the same temps when 'dry'), the toss-n-bake methods are missing out on a TON of potency!
    This is due in part to a portion being left inactive, but even more to the large amount of potency that goes 'in one end and out the other' without absorption, due to reduced overall bioavailability, and by the nature of the oil, being preferential towards lesser absorption 'channels'. :)


    The above video would be more along the lines of a 'gourmedible', rather than a 'medible', where you're trying to use pure ingredients that would traditionally be found in chocolate, but you could still do much better even with the 'gourmedible' side, by using pure cocoa butter to process your hash, and then adding it to tempering chocolate, and by decarbing before you get started.

    By using cocoa butter, a lesser oil source both for breaking down and for absorption of cannabis glandular material (inferior for instance, compared to coconut oil, palm kernel oil, or even clarified butter to a lesser degree), you are still missing out on a good amount of potency.
    But by at least stepping up the edible solvent, the same kind but in a more pure form, you're missing out on much less than you would, even if processing for only a fraction of the time, compared to regular baking or even milk chocolate, both of which have a much lower fat/oil content. :)



    Then, consider what you're baking; most baked goods barely exceed 170 f during cooking, and others barely reach 200 f if they are very dry (think dry breads), and all the while before, they are much, much cooler.

    You can't rely on baking for 10 minutes for cookies, or even 40 minutes for the driest or dry brownies, to activate your material due to the reduced temperatures all the while beforehand, the oil which slightly protects the carboxyl group and hinders its release, and the water contamination due to the eggs, milk, or butter in most recipes, all of which combined slow and hinder the decarb process.




    And again, just to be sure we're on the same page ( :) ), remember that 17% fat is nothing compared to 100%!

    What's worse, even PURE cocoa butter, minus all the chocolate solids/cocoa, is not even an ideal oil source. :eek:


    This is due in part to its lower saturated fat content (still, at 60%, it is better than some common oils), but mainly cocoa butter is poor for absorption, due to its 100% lack of MCT/medium-chain triglycerides!

    The triglycerides it does contain, are long-chains, and they are absorbed lymphatically.


    Without any MCT's at all, you're directing nearly all of your potency to the lymph glands, not the liver where the potentiating conversion takes place from D9THC, to the more powerful 11-OH-THC! This results in a slower onset, and a weaker, briefer overall experience.


    Coconut and palm kernel oils are nearly, and sometimes even over 60% MCT's, and butter has around 20% - 30% once it has been clarified, varying depending on the breed, and how well the cow was fed and cared for.
    These triglycerides are all absorbed rapidly and passively upon consumption, without even requiring the aid of bile salts, through the portal vein and liver. :yay:




    Again, the simple methods certainly DO work for some people! :smoke:


    But for patients whose bodies have become accustom to the rapid and reliable delivery, provided by high grade medical oils, it requires eating many multiple times their usual 'devastating' dose, in order to achieve a fraction of the desired effect, and even then, it's still at the cost of the total length of the duration.

    And for the same people that the lesser methods do work for, a high grade oil is often MUCH too powerful even at a fraction, of a fraction of a dose, and can require some tolerance-building to grow used to!



    A 'canna chocolatier' ( :p ) will have much better results if, at the very least, he or she begins by activating or decarbing the canna or hash before submerging in oil, and if he starts with a more pure edible solvent rather than one so very diluted by solids and other matter (ie. cocoa butter at least, for a 'gourmedible', but the coconut oil for a more effective 'medible' is easy to find, and it also happens to be fabulous in chocolate! It's also solid at room temp, and besides enhanced delivery and potency, it gives a wonderful texture and mouth feel with very minimal effort)! :hello:

    And a valuable saying is, 'to each their own', too :) Sometimes being satisfied in your process or methods, is almost as important as the outcome!


    For patients though, especially those on a budget and even more for those trying to lessen the symptoms of, or even cure their terminal illnesses, it's crucial that they are absorbing as much potency from the materials they have, as efficiently as possible. :yummy:


    Hope this helps clear things up! :wave: :smoke:
     
  10. how to make medical chocolate?
    just melt chocolate and cannabutter together? witrh some sugar?
     

  11. like chocolate-spread (think nutella but a little more solid, depending on the chocolate-butter ratio). I made this a few times. Out of pure laziness cause i didn't wanna bake it into something
     
  12. damn why not just roll a kief blunt instead itll probably get you higher anyawy
     
  13. Id only bake if i had mids
     
  14. OR maybe need to medicate in a high profile spot
     
  15. Smoking is the least efficient method to use your canna, next to eating it raw! Then comes vaping, and finally, edibles. :)


    If you process it properly, you will get a much more powerful sensation, which lasts for hours and hours longer, from less material than you would usually smoke! :hello:
     
  16. #16 Rotties4Ever, Apr 15, 2012
    Last edited by a moderator: Apr 15, 2012
    anyone got any idea
    for easy recipe to combine some melted chocolate and cannabutter
    or anything else that easier

    looking for easy simple ways to combine cannabutter and eat it
    im having appetite and stomach issues and i think this is what i need

    this is along the lines of what i was talking about
    cant imagine it tasting very good

    [ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EV7V0VrG60g[/ame]

    another question: what can one add to the equation that can overpower the bad taste of the butter?
     
  17. It's most likely legit, It is by MastahRolla & he is basically a guru of pot
     
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