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Is There A Way To Take The Sleepyness From Coconut Oil Infusion

Discussion in 'Weed Edibles' started by oem1977, May 30, 2013.

  1. I seriously need some help from the seasoned connoisseur. 
    There are various questions in this regarding the extraction process and times. Please forgive the lack of organization with the ideas, It's just so much data, bud and information, a little DUI right now
    Is there a way to make a 12 hour Coconut Oil extraction produce a high that is not so sopoforic? Its just too sleepy, downer. Any ideas here? Below are 2 methods I have used and my experience:
    I'm using Coconut Oil, Lethicin and Dry, Medium quality buds.
    This brings me to a question: Is vegetable glycerine a better option because it is absorbed easier? Is there any other option that brings a faster onset of effects? With Coconut Oil effects take 1 hour to kick in.
    First method, low time, yet weakling potency:
    1. I decarbed my material (1 g of mids) (too weak potency/extraction). Decarbed at 250F in sealed container for 20 min.
    2. I placed the decarbed material mixed with dissolved coconut oil in an oven 
    3. Cooked at 200-220ish for **1:30 hours**, stirring once at half time
    4. Strained with a strainer, now have my coconut oil infused with cannabinoids
    However, upon ingestion, I notice its an OK quality, not superb, buzz, but just just too weak of a potency for my taste. 
    So here, my only option is to double the amount of weed, to use 2 g's instead of 1. This costs 40 dollars where I'm living right now, a little too expensive   
    Second method (lots of time involved, great potency but too sleepy buzz)
    1. I decarbed my material (1 g's of mids)
    2. I placed the decarbed material mixed with coconut oil in an oven 
    3. Cooked at 200-220ish for *12 hours*, stirring about 4 times in the process
    4. Strained with a strainer, now have my coconut oil infused with cannabinoids
    The 12 hour batch seemed about 6x stronger than in the other attempt. Left it there for 12 hours instead of 1:30 hours. However, the buzz is just soo sleepy. All it makes me is want to sleep, and also my buddies. Looks like we are taking in too much CBD or something. Any help??
    I dont wanna crank out so much dough 20 dollars (1g) per buzz is too expensive
    TY very much for your valuable medicine science

  2. it depends on the strain your using
  3. #3 BadKittySmiles, May 30, 2013
    Last edited by a moderator: May 30, 2013
    Processing time will dictate the effect provided based on the amount of degradation you encourage... with a 12 hour process, you've eliminated much of your THC, replacing it with its less cerebral and more sedative metabolite, CBN.
     The below should help clear things up! From the CannaPharm's Medical Grade Cannabis Concentrate tutorial....
     You'll find the info you need when you scroll to the paragraphs listed as "1" through "5", this section discusses using time and heat to encourage the desired amount of degradation. Everyone has a different desired outcome, and fortunately, you can produce a wide range of effects all from the same herb, just by manipulating your processing time.
       It's still very strain dependent, but unlike smoking, when making oil you have the ability to produce a wider variety of sensations where you have much more control over the process, leaving you with greater control over the effects provided by your cannabis, than you have while lighting up a bong. :)
    -Medical Grade: ~Cannabis <span>Concentrate~ -</span>


    When working and talking with various patients across the globe, it doesn't take long to learn (and to agree, for good reason) that

    Rick Simpson's hemp oil is valued highly by those 'in the know'.

    However, again with patients in the know, their biggest problem is that when it is made the 'traditional way', the potency

    and medicinal value that the resulting 'hemp oil' concentrate contains, is simply not very bioavailable.

    Meaning, that you pass most of it through your digestive tract, without absorption!


    Even though it has been stripped from the inert plant matter, the potency is still not easily absorbed by the body; it bounces off cellular

    walls, and continues down your tract going 'in one end, and right out the other,' without absorption!



    Cannabis glandular material is notoriously difficult for the body to absorb, even if it has been activated, and even when it
    is in the form of a sticky filtered concentrate, such as BHO, or Rick Simpson's Oil.

    It needs a 'vehicle' such as oil, glycerin, or even alcohol, which drastically improves cellular permeability, in order to provide
    you with the most absorption and the strongest sensations.


    The above 'water' could be brownie mix, it could be a beverage, or it could simply be the extra contents of your stomach
    after swallowing canna oil as it is, or inside of a capsule.

    When you process in oil gently, for long enough, a solution is formed in such a way when the solvent (in this case, oil) creates
    a persistent 'coat' on the broken down particles of the solute (cannabis glandular material)... once this occurs, you have
    a bioavailable 'solution'.

    In other words, we choose the edible solvents we do, not only because they are effective at breaking down cannabis
    glandular material, but because they help our bodies absorb it!

    The specific oil source that you choose, even directly dictates where in the body, your oil is absorbed.... this is why the
    quality of oil matters, as well.

    Unless you know for a fact that your liver does not function properly, and that it consistently over-metabolizes both
    food and medications, you should start with medium-chain containing oils such as coconut oil and palm kernal oil,
    or to a lesser extend, clarified butter.

    These oils deliver potency via the portal vein and liver, where a kind of chemical conversion takes place as the liver
    metabolizes the oil, causing the majority of the D9-THC to convert to the more powerful 11-OH-THC!!

    Choose the wrong oil, however, and you miss out on most, if not all of that conversion... which results in a much
    weaker, shorter-lived experience.


    Common kitchen cooking oils such as olive, corn, canola and soy should be avoided, due to their long-chain

    triglyceride content, UNLESS you are one of the very rare people with a liver that consistently over-metabolizes

    cannabinoids. In this case I would suggest using either olive, grapeseed (low temps only), or sesame oils, because long-chain

    cooking oils promote lymphatic absorption, meaning they almost entirely bypass the liver all together.


    Also, it is a little known fact that you can achieve a RANGE of effects and results, depending how well you activate

    your material, and depending how bioavailable your oil is.


    A single strain, is not limited to providing only a 'single type' of experience when it is eaten, like it generally provides when it

    is smoked.


    Edible cannabis can be more like vaporization, it can provide a range of experiences depending how you treat it, and the

    possibilities can be much greater than smoking, or even vaping!


    The below describes the 'range' of effects provided by different levels of activation, their benefits, and the desired outcome for the

    patients who choose them.

    Starting with:

    The least activation, producing a bioavailable solution of mostly carboxyl-intact acid components; Continuing right through to

    decarboxylation, and active cannabinoids and chemicals, free of their carboxyl groups; And finally finishing with

    degradation and the byproducts of degraded THC.

    1.) - Some patients require 'inactive' but bioavailable THCA, CBNA, CBDA and the other (to us) 'inactive acids', and in

    flowers those doses can range from .05g to as high as 4.5g, without 'doping up' or intoxicating a patient much, if at all even

    at the highest doses. These are cold tinctures, processed with material that is as fresh as possible, without decarbing.

    Cold, but most importantly bioavailable extractions (more than just 'juicing' plant matter is required!), provide powerful

    anti-cancer/mutagenic, anti-seizure/spasmodic benefits and they provide wonderful pain relief without reducing sensation

    of touch, they reduce swelling and inflammation even in lower doses, and especially at higher doses, and they provide especially

    wonderful relief for specifically for MS, Parkinson's, as well as for generally frail patients, and also for those suffering

    from seizures.

    Where it takes literally only a day or two to build up a tolerance to the highest of doses, and these oils and tinctures do

    not make a person feel overwhelmed, they are wonderful for treating patients who suffer from very powerful seizures,

    and similar attacks. Cannabis is incredibly non-toxic, an incredibly larger dose may be given to both provide relief, and

    to control the symptoms of more intense attacks, preventing further injury.

    These oils and tinctures are also somewhat mood elevating, but still, for the most part it's without that medicated feeling.

    You will have very good pain relief, without losing your sensation of touch.

    2.) - The first sensations (following a cold tincture that has had no activation) of an oil or tincture with only limited or partial activation

    and decent bioavailability, are primarily cerebral.

    In higher doses, these under-processed edibles can cause some mild anxiety and even paranoia in some patients; hyperventilating,

    'room-spins', racing-mind/thoughts, even vomiting, these are not uncommon side-effects of over-consumption of THC

    and trace amounts of THCA, when they are consumed in quantity, minus some of the important experience-regulating byproducts,

    of degradation.

    3.) - Then, some patients want to feel relaxed, nicely buzzed but still functional, and they need something that elevates their

    mood without gluing them to the couch. In which case edibles decarbed and processed in oil, as described in most of

    the tutorials here, are a great place to start.

    For those first starting out with edibles, I make sure their first few doses are about half of what they'd normally smoke in

    a single session, or in a single day if they are heavy smokers. Once they know what to expect, the average dose most

    people are satisfied with (but at the sane time they are not too overwhelmed by), is right around the same amount used in a

    24 hour period. It's strong enough to either keep them from smoking quite as much in a day, or it actually out-right replaces

    their smoking for the day.

    So if you smoke a gram a day, you'll want to eat between a half gram, to a gram in a well-processed edible. I like to split

    my daily dose into two to three smaller doses. Sometimes I take them in quick succession, sometimes I spread them

    out, and finish with a 'sleeper'... Deciding what level of processing you need, can be the tricky part.

    4.) - The longer you heat in oil (to a certain extent, up to four or five hours), the more 'body intensive' the sensations

    will become, without a noticeable diminish in potency.

    At these levels of activation you have highly effective pain relief, that can sometimes be powerful enough to effect

    sensitivity to touch.... for instance if you have a low tolerance, you may notice that you become clumsy, or 'loose and wobbly'

    on well-activated oil, you may lose some sensation of touch.

    Four to six hours in oil at 220 f, or longer,

    and I'm either stuck to the couch, or falling fast asleep!

    5.) Any longer than a few hours at such temperatures will reduce THC content. But while 'perceived potency' diminishes, and

    the ratio of THC begins to fall, the material becomes overloaded with byproducts of degraded THC, primarily in the form of

    delta-8-THC and CBN, and when combined they are powerfully sedative.

    While their effects may seem weak during the time you can keep your eyes open, these oils and tinctures usually knock a patient

    out cold within 45 - 60 minutes, leaving them well rested upon waking the following morning (or afternoon)!
    *** The above answers your question on how to use heat and time to control the end effect :) Here is the remainder of the tutorial, if needed.... ***

    ************************************************** ***********

    This tutorial provides SUPERIOR results, to traditionally extracted 'hemp oil', because;

    **It takes activation into consideration.

    ** It takes bioavailability and absorption into consideration, meaning much more of your valuable medicine is actually

    delivered throughout your body!

    ** It uses 100% FOOD GRADE solvents and materials!!! With lab testing becoming more common, we are discovering

    more and more, that even the best purging methods do not provide results that are as complete, or as clean, as we first assumed. <span>[​IMG]</span>

    For it to be a truly medical-grade product, you do not want traces of the harmful byproducts produced by non-food-grade

    solvents, to remain in your medicine.

    ************************************************** ***********

    - Medical Grade: ~Cannabis <span>Concentrate~ - </span>



    I finally decided to finish the tutorial, that I've been pressured to write up for the last few months, now that I've got a little time. <span>[​IMG]</span>

    The photos are actually from the week of Thanksgiving <span>[​IMG]</span>

    I was half-way through making the second batch of the day, when I realized I should be making the tutorial....

    so I apologize that I was already one or two 'soakings' into the process before I set up the ingredients photo <span>[​IMG]</span>

    I don't feel comfortable calling this a 'hash extract' or hash concentrate, because for this tutorial, I am showing how to get

    a bit more out of the plant, beyond what we usually consider the normal medicinal (ie. psychoactive/sedative) components.

    The above shots were from a much quicker wash, than the one we'll be working with below.

    The faster you rinse, the more 'pure' your end product will be.

    That being said.....

    Many people pay between ten and fifty dollars per bottle, for simple chlorophyll plant extracts!

    By allowing for a longer wash, we can pick up a good amount of chlorophyll, waxes and plant salts (which we'd

    USUALLY want to avoid, for cooking/flavor purposes) and retain them for our own oils for improved digestion and

    skin treatments, along with the bonus of extracting a slightly greater amount of the potency we seek.

    These oils are best for topical uses, capsules, and peanut butter chocolate recipes, but if the plant matter has

    been decarbed thoroughly beforehand, many people do not find long-soaked extracts offensive for sweet, fruity

    or minty candies!

    In order to improve purity, potency-wise, you just simply need to wash/rinse faster, don't soak the material for as long,

    and to not give in to the temptation to squeeze the plant matter to get out the last of the alcohol... just let it pass through.

    You will remove less overall potency this way, meaning some will be left behind, but you have control over the purity

    of at least your first extraction.

    You may then save that 'waste' plant matter to make additional runs using fresh alcohol, to retrieve the remaining

    potency, and additional plant extracts.


    I will be walking you through creating two concentrates:

    - An edible oil concentrate...

    - And a smokable/vapable concentrate...

    If you would like to use the latter in your vape, you may, but be forewarned that depending on the style of vape the 'extra'

    plant matter can make your device a bit dirtier, a little more quickly than usual.

    A quick wash is best for vaping, but a long wash still provides tasty results... just a slightly messier aftermath.

    You can see I had already started the process again for the second time that day... I make small batches very frequently, and

    I will set aside an incompletely-scraped dish of 'smokable' concentrate, to be used with oil for the following batch of 'edible'


    The oil lifts the material from the plate very easily, so rather than troubling myself with a complete scrape (and where the

    smoking concentrate is only a 'bonus', or secondary/side goal), I just alternate dishes, and clean the one that was last

    used for making oil.

    So each dish makes a smoking concentrate, then immediately after, an edible concentrate, then once the oil is collected,

    the dish gets sterilized, and the process starts over!

    When I finish up for the day, I just add a little oil to the final 'smoking' dish, process it, collect it, then clean.

    During busier days, without much effort I can easily make a couple hundred doses using minimal tools, average

    sized dishes, and that simple system. <span>[​IMG]</span>


    You will need:

    - 2 pyrex/glass pie or casserole dishes (only 1 is required; 2 if you're making both)

    - 1 + cup 190 proof grain/drinking alcohol, such as Everclear

    - 1 large measuring cup or glass

    - A simple double boiler

    - Cheesecloth

    - A fine Hemp or paper filter, or coffee filter

    - 1 Tbsp coconut oil MINIMUM (for the suggested amount of material below)

    - Pinch lecithin, to half a teaspoon

    - Canning jar

    - Spatula scraper

    - 1 - 2+ oz's of well-ground material; this can be anything from trim, to your finest can even be sifted

    hash, however with an oz and a half of hash, you will want to use much more coconut oil! <span>[​IMG]</span>

    The better the material you use, the more you'll collect in the end, and the higher the potency per gram, or unit of weight.

    Again, I'm just telling you what I used, see the end of the tutorial for help adjusting your own dose.

    Again: For suggested **DOSAGE INSTRUCTIONS** and oil-to-herb ratios, see below.

    Optional, but -required- for heated evaporation: An oscillating fan.


    Without a fan, only utilize a slow-paced evaporation near an open window, until all but the very smallest amount of alcohol

    has dissipated. Then you may complete it in the oven, if you like.

    ONLY use heated and rapid evaporation methods from the start, if you have both good ventilation AND a fan.

    This will prevent dense pockets of -volatile and explosive alcohol fumes-, from forming. If you can not meet those

    requirements, evaporate near an open window at room temp, it should be gone in less than 24 hours. Then you may

    add oil for edible processing, or you can scrape and smoke or vape the concentrate.

    *** If you have a gas-only oven, do NOT attempt any of the heated portions of this recipe! Simply use an electric hot

    plate, or utilize a longer soak, and evaporate in the open air until nearly all alcohol has vanished. ***

    I know it may seem silly to some of us: but if anyone is, for any reason, unsure how their oven operates, do NOT

    use it to evaporate alcohol.


    - First, decarb your material according to the directions seen in the below links... if you are making it for smoking

    purposes ONLY, you may SKIP this step. <span>[​IMG]</span>

    BadKat's Highly Activated & Bioavailable, Med-Grade Canna Oil

    Med-Grade Canna Oil


    BadKat's Highly Activated & Bioavailable, Med-Grade Hash Oil

    Med-Grade Hash Oil


    If you are making a dual batch, it's better to decarb than not to decarb at this stage. You only lose as tiny bit of potency

    when smoking, and next to none when vaping if you decarb first, but if you were not to pre-decarb a batch meant for

    cooking, it's a bit more difficult to do so later on.

    Almost every time I make it, I just like to reserve a little bit... maybe 1/3 - 1/4 of the batch.... for smoking. Just as a

    treat, and a bowl-topper. <span>[​IMG]</span>

    - Once you've decarbed, mentally divide it into 4 or more portions (more, if you're using 2oz's or more).

    Dividing it into portions allows you to use less alcohol, to soak more material. You will saturate one portion, squeeze and

    strain, then use that alcohol to saturate several additional portions. Pouring a cup of alcohol into several oz's of herb makes straining

    and recovery much more difficult.

    - Prepare your double boiler with, besides the water between the two pots, enough water to fill the inner pot about half

    way, as well. Leave on medium heat. Either remove water from the base pot or lower the temp, if it's too agitated

    or boiling over.

    - For later, prepare your large measuring cup or glass, with four layers of folded cheesecloth, and a rubber band.

    - Add one cup of 190 proof grain alcohol into a large canning jar, place the lid on loosely, then sit in the water bath

    for 3 - 4 minutes to heat up.

    Remove the jar from the bath.

    - Take your first portion of decarbed material, pour it into the jar. Seal the lid well, then shake the herb in the warm

    alcohol for 10 seconds. Re-lid loosely.


    Add to your double boiler. Let heat for 45 - 60 seconds, longer if you want a lot more chlorophyll, and a bit more potency.



    If you replicate this exposure to heat and alcohol as closely as possible, it is safe to say that your waste material will

    contain less than 1/15 - 1/20 the potency it once had, before you began.

    In other words it's safe to assume that you should be removing WELL over 95% of the potency. (I'll explain a little

    from my and a close acquaintance's personal experience, at the end of the tutorial...)

    If you wish to soak longer, you may. Just know that the return is only slightly higher, while the amount of inert plant

    matter to enter the wash, increases exponentially, after such a long soak. Trace amounts of potency will invariably

    be left behind after straining. If you choose, you may save the remains and wash again with fresh alcohol, then

    save that batch for future use with new material.


    - Once you've soaked and heated your material adequately, strain by pouring the bulk of the liquid through the cheese cloth,

    at first leaving the soggy plant matter behind.

    You will then want to divide even this small portion, into three or so smaller portions, so you can squeeze every last drop

    possible from the material.

    If you squeeze too much material all at once, you leave a surprising amount of liquid behind (this is evident after squeezing

    as MUCH as possible from a larger portion, then diving it into smaller portions and squeezing each again, only to find even

    more liquid can be removed).

    And just remember, if you want it 'pure', don't squeeze!...

    Just leave that alcohol behind for the following wash, to extract a 'dirtier' concentrate.


    Now, repeat this process accordingly with all the remaining portions, using your increasingly more green, and gold tinted alcohol.

    When you are on your last batch, pre-heat your oven, to 180 f.

    If you have a gas-only oven, skip this step.


    Once you've finished straining your last batch through the cheesecloth, it's time to get out your fine filter.


    Set it up in a metal strainer or colander, over a clean glass. Now, slowly pour your (what would now, be) fresh but unfinished

    'Green Dragon' through the filter.

    Depending how well you used your cheesecloth, this may take more or less time. Do not be tempted to squeeze the filter until

    the very end! It's possible to create a 'bubble' of alcohol and press it out faster, but do so at your own risk.... if you burst

    your bubble, you have to start all over again. <span>[​IMG]</span>


    You'll notice that your filter collects what looks like good kief... but don't be fooled, and don't wonder "why it didn't work"!

    They do contain some small amount of potency, by these are actually mostly-emptied and depleted 'trichome husks'...

    these are the cuticle heads and stalks that once contained most of your potency. Now, it has been for the most part

    extracted. These husks do NOT instantly dissolve once they are emptied, they remain intact for long period of time

    long after their contents have been either removed, or degraded.

    The heads disintegrate more rapidly than the stalks, but in fact, we actually (however, rarely) find fully-intact and

    structurally unharmed trichome stalks, missing their heads, with some otherwise-fossilized plants.




    This 'kief' is still worth setting aside, and saving for a friend in need (after it's been dried)... but if you regularly work with

    good extracts and edibles, it probably won't do very much for you. <span>[​IMG]</span>


    Depending on the desired strength of your caps, and how much material you used, melt one to four Tbsp coconut oil.

    Without knowing you personally as a patient, or your level of tolerance, I will not suggest a specific amount:

    However - ***Detailed dosage 'advice' and suggested oil-to-extract ratios are included at the end of this tutorial. ***

    Again, I can not suggest that you use specific ratios without knowing certain information, except to say that I like my

    capsules and oil strong and concentrated.

    If you're serious about curing cancer, and you have built up a ridiculously high tolerance, you still need to use at least

    between 7 and 10 Tbsp coconut oil, per lb (pound) of your highest quality herb.

    Any less oil, and you run the risk of sacrificing absorption or bioavailability.

    Capsules (even a single capsule) made at the above level of potency should be kept far away from all users who historically

    only smoke or eat less than a few grams, per day. The capsules will each be capable of housing the concentrated potency from

    up to 3 - 4 grams of quality herb. And again, this is all variable depending on the length of wash, and the potency of the

    herb you're starting with.


    With one batch of herb you may need more or less per dose, than with the next batch.

    And the number of grams/ml of potency extracted, per any unit of weight will also vary, and this alone can increase or decrease

    your total capsule count when using the same amount of oil.

    But all that being said, a Tbsp of oil per oz of good bud, will still be MORE than strong enough for 70% - 80% of the

    end-users. If you're looking for a very, very strong experience, start there, and remember that you should 'feed your liver'

    at least once, no sooner, than 2 - 6 hours before taking your dose.

    And again, slightly more helpful advice for determining dosage is included at the end of the tutorial.


    - Now take your pie or casserole dishes, and be sure that you remember which dish is which, if you are making two batches.


    I've used just under 2oz's of primarily reasonably-frosty trim, and a few little buds, all of which has been curing in jars,

    for over 4 months.

    Not the frostiest, which is probably why it's still laying around the house after so long, even while I'm in the middle of

    a 'dry spell'. <span>[​IMG]</span>

    Due to the advanced age, while keeping in mind that it was stored well, my decarb was slightly more brief (18 minutes

    at 220 f, and ten or so minutes in the hot oven after shutting off the heat.)

    In this particular batch I will be using slightly under a Tbsp of oil, for between 2/3rds - 3/4ths of my extract, or just

    around 1.5 ozs of herb.

    That's right; all the potency of over an oz and a half of material, concentrated into just a spoonful of oil!

    The remaining 1/3 of the extract is evaporated for smoking purposes (photos at the end).




    - The oil and the larger portion of the extract are whisked together, and then placed in the oven at 180 f, along-side the extract

    meant for smoking. Depending on the humidity, it will take roughly 25 - 30 minutes with occasional manual agitation to

    evaporate the smoking extract, and 40 - 50 minutes to evaporate the alcohol from the oil batch.


    After evaporation. Before heating further, add your lecithin now:



    After you notice layers of 'color' forming in your smokable dish, and it appears sticky but very 'dry', remove and allow it to

    cool on your countertop, on a heat-safe pot holder or trivet.

    (Do NOT place on the stove top, especially if you have recently used, or plan to use a burner... people have shattered their

    dishes and lost all their material this way!).

    Once it's cooled, freeze it... in a half hour or so it should be cool enough to scrape easily from the dish. Scraping immediately

    from the oven is possible, but can be challenging.



    Following evaporation, add lecithin, then freeze the oil for four - six hours.

    After spending at least four hours in the coldest section of your freezer (near the ice-cube maker, or on the rack/location

    intended for ice-cube trays), allow it to thaw until room temp. Placing it in the oven immediately after being frozen can shock

    and break your glass! Once thawed (it will be solid), if you have not already you may ***sprinkle with your lecithin and

    then SEAL WELL WITH FOIL***, and continue heating your oil at 220 f for an additional 60 - 80 minutes, before cooling

    it, and then finally either setting it aside for baking, or for inserting into capsules.

    I prefer one more 40 minute interval at 220 f, along with another freeze between the two heatings, this may put some users

    to sleep, or it may give them the pain relief and strength they are looking for. It will absolutely provide strong sensations,

    but it may take a few batches for you to figure out exactly the range of effects and potency you're after.

    The level of processing above, -minus the additional 40 minutes-, will allow for a very a strong, upbeat and motivational

    'cerebral effect' with decent pain relief, and maybe a bit of couch-lock at times... but it should still be processed enough to

    keep you positive and anxiety-free, without putting you to sleep, just so long as you don't take too much!

    (Under-processing, or processing any less than described here, can potentially cause some patients -mild anxiety-,
    in higher doses.

    If you want a narcotic, sleepy, and irresistibly couch-locked stone, that is good for later in the day, then you should continue

    heating and freezing in 40 minute (heat) and minimum 4 hour (freeze) intervals, as many as you choose, up to a total of 5

    or so hours of heat, depending on the effects you're after.

    You will likely be glued to your chair, after processing much more than 2 - 3 additional hours.

    Just keep in mind: Towards the end of a very extended, longer process, you may notice a slight -decrease- in perceived

    potency, and almost no heady, cerebral effects whatsoever.

    However, you should also notice that much of your pain will vanish, accompanied by an almost total-inability to keep

    your eyes open, beginning about forty minutes to an hour after taking your capsule!

    Over-processed capsules may be 'weaker' in some ways, but they are amazing for sleep!

    And the finished products!



    I filled a clear capsule as well, as an example to show how dark the oil is once it's solid.


    In most scenarios I would recommend non-colored capsules... there's really no reason to use or consume 'artificial coloring'

    where it isn't needed. It is however useful for remembering which batch is which. <span>[​IMG]</span>

    Another small benefit of colored capsules; appealing or appetizing colors can provide just enough 'visual stimulation' to

    help encourage a patient, who has a hard time stomaching his or her meds.

    And a few shots of the smokable concentrate... it's often almost rock solid when cold or low-room-temp, so I'll pry off a

    chunk, then flatten it out between my thumbnails, and make a thin hole in the center... it melts and burns SO nicely this way!




    **** Dosing Advice****:

    This particular batch, using 1.5oz's of somewhat frosty trim, made just about 19 ridiculously potent capsules.

    Four of which were immediately tested, and split between myself and three patients <span>[​IMG]</span> They were a bit 'too- successful' for

    some of us *grin*....

    The additional half oz of frosty-leaf extract made just under a gram of concentrate, to smoke. :hello:

    Which means, between three and four grams of concentrate went into those 19 capsules! <span>[​IMG]</span>

    Which makes sense, because; 1 Tbsp oil = 15 capsules, That, plus three to four grams of concentrate = 19 capsules.

    Just remember that 1 Tbsp of oil, all alone and without glandular material, will fill about 15 x 00-size capsules.

    Now, mentally add roughly another 3 - 5 capsules (sometimes more, or sometimes less depending on the quality/potency of

    the material) per oz of high-quality herb used, for the space taken up by the concentrate itself.

    If you know your usual edible dose is normally only a half a gram, then a single capsule from a batch that made 15 + 5

    (20) capsules will be way, WAY too powerful!

    *** The point***:

    You will want to eat roughly the same, or less than you would smoke over the course of a single session, or a single day

    if you are a frequent/heavy user.

    - If half a gram of herb, is your ideal dose, then you want about 56 doses per oz.

    In which case, you're going to want to use roughly 3 and 1/2 Tbsp coconut oil, for 52 total 00-size capsules, combined with

    the capsule-space the concentrate itself will take up, to make roughly 55 - 56 doses.

    - If only a third of a gram is your ideal dose, then you will want to make 84 capsules or doses per oz.

    In which case, by using just over 5 Tbsp coconut oil, combined with your oz-worth of concentrate, you should be able to

    make 82 - 88 capsules (again, it varies, depending on the total glandular content of the oz/material used).


    To fix meds which are too powerful/strong:

    I would suggest filling a single capsule half-way, or fully, to take right away, before you fill any more, just to be certain

    that your entire batch of capsules do not come out much stronger, than you need them to be.

    If it's too strong, just relax and try to enjoy yourself.

    Then, when you're able to, just cut the remaining oil with a little more melted coconut oil.

    If instead, it's too weak (or you accidentally add too much additional coconut oil), you can choose to either simply

    take two caps per dose as needed, or you may save your oil until you make a second, stronger batch, and then

    combine the two.


    Once you've made your second or third batch, it becomes like second nature, and it's very easy to create a perfect batch

    every single time!


    Briefly: in 2007-08 I was not located near the majority of the medical community, but I had the same curiosity many of us do:

    I wonder how much potency am I extracting from my plant matter with 'X/amount-processing'?

    After walking an old friend out west, through a few successful batches, I instructed him to go through the same process,

    using 6 very different batches of herb, containing three different local strains/samples of varying cannabinoid/potency content

    above 14% thc, but no higher than 19 - 20%.

    They were divided into 6 portions, three decarbed, three non-decarbed. Each portion/subject was again divided, into

    three or four smaller portions, for a series of individual washes.

    Keeping in mind that the first portion washed, contains the least remaining potency, and the final batch washed (with already-

    potentiated alcohol) leaves the most behind due to the increased concentration and potency content within the wash, I had

    him send a portion of the -blended/combined- remaining 'waste' herb from each individual batch off to a nearby lab for

    analysis (back then, 6 samples could be tested for the cost of about $2,500, and that was after a bulk discount...nowadays

    it's closer to around $900 - $1,200 to analyze 6 samples).

    Those that had been decarbed tested positive for varying amounts totaling less than 0.80%, primarily THC, and a very

    minute fraction of THCA. Those that had not been decarbed also tested positive for both THCA, and in much smaller

    quantity, THC, and combined again, less than 0.80%.... all numbers were not 0.80%, some were much lower.

    Using the highest number I can remember, and assuming for the most waste possible, I think gives folks the most

    'realistic' expectations.

    We did this with oil extractions as well to determine how complete the extraction could be, with similar results; the

    more oil you use, the more diluted it is, and the less potency you leave behind.

    And the less oil you use initially, the more concentrated the resulting oil is, and slightly increased traces of potency

    are left behind due to that increased concentration. That's why it can be good to use a rather large volume of alcohol, with

    small divided portions, and why it's good a good idea to run more unadulterated oil through a batch of already oil-extracted



    I was hoping that I'd find our old emails so I could share exact figures for all the different chemical components, active

    cannabinoids, the byproducts of degraded THC etc., since I paid for and at least co-own them I wanted to include the

    actual documents with the recipe, it's the main reason I dragged my heels a bit with sharing this tutorial.

    But I'm discovering now that I probably lost them to an old '30 day rule', for signing in..... probably the most 'expensive'

    email I've lost to date. <span>[​IMG]</span>


    I realize the above was a bit wordy, just in case it was a bit too overwhelming to comprehend, I'll break it down into quick steps.

    Combined with the above, you should be able to sort things out:

    The Basics:

    - Grind and decarb as described in past tutorials;

    - Divide into small portions

    - Soak each portion individually, in warmed alcohol, for 1+/- minutes (less for more purity, longer for more impotent but healthy

    plant matter, cold for 'inactive/acid' oils).

    - Strain through cheesecloth, repeat with each portion until finished.

    - Once last portion has been strained through cheese cloth, strain the potent alcohol once more through your fine filter.

    - Add coconut oil to your dish for edible oil, but do not add it if you plan to smoke or vape.

    - Add your alcohol, then allow to evaporate as required by your situation; with adequate fans and ventilation you

    may use the oven at 180 f or lower, and without adequate ventilation, just sit by an open window, away from heat and


    - Once evaporated, either cool, then freeze and scrape your concentrate made for smoking, or add your lecithin, freeze

    for several hours, then reheat for 90 minutes to 3 or more hours, depending on the desired outcome described above.

    - Inject into capsules, or make into edibles, and enjoy!

    Hope you enjoyed the tutorial, guys, and I hope it helps to clear a few things up! :wave:


    And some smoking concentrate made the same way, with a much faster and cooler wash/rinse...



    Sorry if that was a bit long, it's the cut-paste of the full tutorial. :)

    Hope it helps! :wave:
  4. I'd like to congratulate "badkittysmiles". Worldwide Rep. 
    2.) - The first sensations (following a cold tincture that has had no activation) of an oil or tincture with only limited or partial activation

    and decent bioavailability, are primarily cerebral.
    What fast cold tincture extraction method can you recommend to achieve this specific purpose? I can't leave it out for 3 months. Looking into" QWISO " looks good , which seems to be the same as what you are doing with 95 Everclear Ethanol. However, I've read that the QWISO fails to extract the full range of psychoactives, which is disapointing. I'd like to extract the full cerebral uplifting psychoactives, with absolutely NO Couch Clocked High. Many other patients also need this. This would be too good. Can you add the extract to green dragon to make it stronger?
    I feel like you gave my brain an ISO wash!!!  You really hit the jackpot, I'm set. I've been studying your "Dragon" technique, seems you really got this whole thing down pat. I am working on the Everclear to try your Dragon. I think I'd be more than grateful if I can even get up till there. In fact, I'd much rather really just love to be able to use the Dragon as sublingual better than an "edible" per se. I have been seeing your videos I'd just use the extract to boost the potency of the subingual if this can be done.  Can this be achieved for a fast hot extracture tincture method? 
    And in regards to the coconut oil, I do follow your instructions down pat but I need more raw herb used, like 2 g to feel anything. Not cost effective. Don't know if its just the fact that I am messing up the temperatures because I am not using a candy thermometer. I will get one now for sure. If I can do a fast iso extraction and then use that sublingually, can that be done? Or must it be done with ethanol 95 per cent alcohol? I dont want to injure myself trying out the "QWISO".
  5. someone at some other forums:
    I dissolve QWISO into everclear (with a splash of schnapps) to make tincture, much tastier, more potent, and much purer than any tincture you've ever had. Why do a long soak when you don't want chlorophyll in your green dragon either? Make QWISO out of it first, then use it for whatever you want. I also use QWISO hash in my baked goods.

    Remember, garbage in, garbage out. Start with a pure extract and then you can make ANYTHING potent with it.
    So basically , you can drink the qwiso if mixed with everclear? I dont wanna go try that one out myself, I'd like to know if this is real. Still, the QWISO is supposed to be weak at thc extraction I have heard. Would like to know, why do a QWISO first if you can just extract the alcohol as well as with the quiso using everclear. Is QWISO more effective than everclear? Can you take QWISO sublingually? too many questions. . 
    Why start a new thread?
    The answer to every question you have or could possibly have is to be found at Bad Kat's CannaPharm thread right here at GrassCity.
    For starters, I wouldn't be decarboxylating at anywhere near 250F for a anything nearing a nano-second...
  7. I had to start a new thread because I cant find some very specific data.
    Its a long search and learning journey. I can't find in the main cannapharm thread certain details , its a very long thread and the search feature can sometimes be a little hard to use when searching through hundreds of pages.
    We are working with some very delicate stuff where precision in every step is very important.
    Its just too much data
  8. awesome post bks, I really really appreciate your input thx all

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