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Is Peace a forgotten word?

Discussion in 'Seasoned Marijuana Users' started by Digit, Feb 8, 2003.

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PEACE & WAR?

  1. _ PEACE

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  2. It will get worse again before it gets better (and theres never any gaurantee that it will stay bett

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  3. War Is an essential tool for the politicians.

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  4. War will destroy us. Our Toys are to big, and pack too much punch. An Image of a todler with a Sho

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  1. Peace always deserves a chance and those who say otherwise are ignorant and driven by fear. Dubya's Weapons of Mass Delusion are far more destructive than anything Saddam could ever get his hands on. Because of apathy, media compliance and blind patriotism the fear mongering tactics of the Bush administration have taken hold and will probably last long enough for them to start and finish a war before the next election, securing a few oil fields and a tolerable level of popularity along the way. What amazes me are peoples' ability to forget about the past whenever it becomes convenient. The Nixon administration taught us that both false wars and false words were within the capabilities of an elected official holding the highest possible rank in government. The 60's taught us that dissent and civil disobedience not only worked but could cause drastic change as well as a drastic shift in power. And above all else, the fact that after millions of years of evolution and thousands of years of recorded history we still fight. People die needlessly and progress is impeaded because of war and almost every time it's because of an intense concentration of power in the hands of someone willing to use it to it's fullest without regard for others.Most such powers become infamous in some way. Hitler, Stalin, even Napoleon or Saddam Hussein himself. But some of them achieve just as much infamy as they do glory. Napoleon met a sad end but lived a remarkable life. Caesar is spoken of in good terms within history books to this day despite having been responsible for the deaths of hundreds of thousands (possibly millions--I'm no expert). The biggest difference between these men and the current president of the United States is that none of the other guys came into power through such a strange mix of dumb luck and careful planning (by people other than Dubya). The biggest similarity between all of them is that in the end all of their power lead to nothing. Whether they died because of an ultimate, final loss of power or if their power and legacies dwindled after their passing nothing they ever did changed the world for the better. For all his greed and neglect for the world the sad truth is that Dubya and many of the people in America right now will never know the true power of empathy and peace.
     

  2. but u gotta admit. the US has been far more Authoritiarian the the original LIBERAL ideology for a country. The original GW's bones are turnin in his grave.


    The USA have been acting like a rogue state. as for a terrorist nation? if they kick of a politically dangerous and murderous war on the people of iraq... then? yes, then a terrorist nation.

    "strong financial interests" ? isn't that america? ever heard that there's a whole load of the black stuff under iraq? And I'll give you 1.1 guesses as to which Nation in the world is the biggest gas guzzler. Not that it's all about oil.

    NATO have been 'ensurring the safety' of many nations for a long while and this is how america treats da rest of them? anyway... how exactly are the rest of the world treating America? disagreeing with bush's warmongering? hardly unfair treatment. The people of the Liberal Democracies of the world do not start wars. (occasionally their governments might if they've slipped away into corrupt, usually right wing, athoritarianism, but the people won't like it)
     

  3. You think we actually help other countries?

    A recent poll asked, "As a percent of Gross National Product, how much do you think we give in foreign aid?"

    The majority answered, "15%".

    They were then asked, "As a percent of Gross National Product, how much do you think we SHOULD give in foreign aid?"

    The majority answered, "5%".

    TRUTH: As a percent of Gross National Product, the United states gives...














    ...one tenth of one percent. That's 0.1%. Less foreign aid than ANY OTHER industrialized nation IN THE WORLD!
     

  4. The US gives more to other countries then France, Germany, and Belgium combined. We have major trade deficits with Germany and France which means we buy more from them then they do from us. It seems everyone wants to put down the US but doesn't want to look at the other side of the picture. The great thing about the US is we can debate issues like this with having to worry about repercussion. Another great thing about the US is if you don't like it you can always leave although you don't see too many folks leaving but you do see many trying to get in. If you believe the US is such a bad place to live, then move! Do you honestly believe that the people of Iraq want Sadam and his party to stay in power?
    Not only is The US looking into the future and trying to be proavtive, but its about liberating the people of Iraq. The fucking French sure loved the US when we saved their ass in WW2.
     

  5. Did you even read what I just posted? We do not give more than anyone. We give the least ever. We suck.

    I wish I could move. If I had the means and the money I would do it in a hearbeat. Unfortunatly, its so hard to get into countries with things like socialized health care because they're afraid you'll abuse the system.

    I don't want to get into some violent argument with you over these things we can't control. Perhaps some research is needed on both our parts. I don't have an exact source for my numbers (they were told to me by my ethics professor), so I'll try and find out the truth about this foriegn aid stuff.
     
  6. http://www.globalissues.org/TradeRelated/Debt/USAid.asp

    When the world's governments met at the Earth summit in Rio de Janeiro in 1992, they adopted a programme for action under the auspices of the United Nations -- Agenda 21. Amongst other things, this included an Official Development Assistance (ODA) aid target of 0.7% of gross domestic product (GDP) for rich nations, roughly 22 members of the OECD (Organization of Economic Cooperation and Development), known as the Development Assistance Committee (DAC). (Side Note <JavaScript:;>: ODA is basically aid from the governments of the wealthy nations, but doesn't include private contributions or private capital flows and investments. The main objective of ODA is to promote development. It is therefore a kind of measure on the priorities that governments themselves put on such matters. Whether that necessarily reflects their citizen's wishes and priorities is a different matter! Other aid, such as private capital flows may be for investment purposes, etc.)
    Even though these targets and agendas may have been set, the following is interesting to note:
    Almost all rich nations have constantly failed to reach this 0.7% target.
    For example, USA's aid, in terms of percentage of their GDP is already lowest of any industrialized nation in the world.



    http://www.oneworld.org/ips2/jul98/23_13_097.html
    AID-USA: Half of US Foreign Aid Devoted to Military
    By Jim Lobe
    WASHINGTON, Jul 28 (IPS) - Half of the foreign aid granted by the United States last year was designed to further military and national-security interests, according to a new report released here Tuesday.
    As a result, much of the U.S. foreign-aid programme may be working against the stated objectives of the administration of President Bill Clinton, including promoting sustainable development, protecting human health and bolstering democratic government.
    A report by the Washington-based arms-control group, Council for a Livable World Education Fund asks ''does the United States invest more in militarisation than in development globally?''
    In its findings, the report ''Foreign Aid and the Arms Trade: a Look at the Numbers'' declares the answer is a resounding 'yes'.''
    In addition, at a time when Washington spent only about 1.25 dollars per U.S. citizen on development and humanitarian aid and peacekeeping abroad, it exported weapons worth more than two dollars per citizen to foreign countries, often the same nations to which it provides the bulk of its aid.


    So, not only do we spend the least, but what we do spend is mostly military!
     
  7. Why don't we just form a stoner colony on the moon to distance ourselves from these weapons of mass destruction? I'm sure with all the pot-heads in the world we could find enough money to do so. We'd have plenty of time to react to a nuclear attack and those of us in the U.S. could actually smoke legally. Plus, imagine how cool the stars would look, while stoned, without an atmosphere to dampen our perception.
     

  8. HAHAHA..good idea, but all the potheads I know are poor from buying weed all the time :)
     
  9. i voted war will destroy, all human kind knows is killing.
     
  10. strato...

    oh me oh my. I'm glad lilith managed to get to you first because i would have no doubt let my emotions carry me away and i would have just ranted in anger.


    you say it as if the US is the only nation which claims to allow freedom of speech. the whole of western europe do too you know and many other places dotted about around the globe. and besides, say the wrong thing to the wrong guy in the states and he might just pull a gun on you, and to me i'd call that a repercussion. less chance of that here.


    leave? if you have the money to get away that is. and why do you think people want to leave their countries? most of them are fleeing american bombs or sanctions. okok, the UK, UN, whatever, we all gotta take alotta the blame on the sanctions.


    (forgive my presumption for correcting a typo when quoting)
    I guess you are one of those black&white kinda guys. Do you think that France, Germany, Russia, China (and 90% of the UK population) want to just let sadam continue to do whatever while they sit back and do NOTHING? well they don't! Just because we don't think war is the solution doesn't mean we want to do nothing. there are other solutions that have been put forward. If the US can afford to put forward 100,000 troops why couldn't they afford to put forward 100,000 weapons inspectors. it would be cheaper! less equipment. and the job would be done so much quicker. LIBERATING THE PEOPLE OF IRAQ???? are you taking the piss!? America has been bombing iraq ever since the last gulf war! Just who is it they need liberating from!? It's no secret that Bush is shite at foriegn policy, so why are we letting him conduct "foreign policy".



    oh yeah, that's right. the whole world was up at war except america because they had enough distance to take the time to decide which side to join. yes the allies were glad they finally made up their minds and decided to join in. a bit late, but better late than never. anyways (i'm not being unthankful for sparing us all the blight of the nazis and the german language but..) that hasn't really got much relavence to what's going on now. by that i mean, it doesn't give america the right to act entirely as it pleases regardless of the UN, regardless of human rights, regardless of morals, regardless of the ten comandments (isn't bush supposed to be a christian?)

    aaargh! i'm going to stop now because without weed i get way to stressed out thinking that this is what hs become of humanity. all i can say is, it's pathetic how easily sucked in you are strat.

    and now i'm onto ted's comment...
    ahhh! at last a voice of sanity. I'd join ya but only one problem... I'm quite fond of my air! ;) heehee nah, but seriously, gravity bongs wouldn't work so well due to less downward pressure... oh fuckit lets just go to mars where we can all just be martians and live without country boarders! that way we could finaly rid ourselves of patriotism and thus wipe out the biggest cause of zenophobia and racism! hoooray! we'd have to go through a genetic selection process to ensure that no one with violent or murderous tendancies would be part of the new martian way. oh if only it werent for the obsticle of money. jeez do i hate capitalism.


    like bill hicks said:
    Quit arming the world, man!...We're like Jack Palance in the movie shane, talking to the goat herder... "Pick up the gun"

    i could go on to quote that entire sketch but i think you all get the point... especially if you've seen either Shane or bill doing that sketch.
     
  11. Damn...lotsa negativity in here....smoke a joint y'all.. I'm not gonna bitch about my country (U.S.A.) because Im grateful for what I have here..You have your little opinions. I know where im going to live the rest of my life...
     


  12. " FOR THOSE WHO DO NOT REMEMBER THE PAST, THEY ARE CONDEMNED TO REPEAT IT!"

    WW2 would have never been had the European nations put a stop to Hitler in the early 30's. Churchhill was one of the only Euros to speak out. If you believe that the only reason that France, Germany, and Russia are against the war is because od war it self, then you are pretty naive.All 3 of those nations have large financial interests in Iraq and have been among the main suppliers of WMD or the technology to build them. The war is going to happen regardless of support for it by the Euros so only time will tell. 9-11 was a pyridine shift for the whole world.

    Ben Franklin once said " an ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure"
     

    Attached Files:

  13. George W Bush is doing a tour of schools. He goes into the first class room, a class full of six year olds, and the teacher asks him to lead a discussion on todays subject, which is Tragedy, so Mr Bush asks "Now then kids, can one of you tell me what a tragedy would be?" and little Mary puts up her hand and says "If I was walking home tonight and got hit by a car, that would be a tragedy!" and Bush replys "No Mary that would be an accident"
    So the class think for a while and then little Tom puts his hand up and say "If I was on the school bus tonight and it went over a cliff and all sixty of us were killed, that would be a tragedy!" but Bush replys "No son thats what we would call a 'Great Loss'"
    So the class think some more and finally little Mike puts up his hand and says " Mr President if you were flying home tonight on Air force 1 and a terrorist blew you up with a missile, that would be tragedy!" and Mr Bush says " Well done little Mike that would be a tragedy, but can you tell me why?" and little mike says "Well it wouldn't be an accident and it certainly wouldn't be no great loss...."
     
  14. ^^^hahah, that kid is pretty clever :D ^^^
     
  15. It's a shame that there are so many anti americans out there.
    I think many of you are misguided. Here is you chance to be Hannitized go to www.hannity.com


    The Truth shall set you free
     
  16. Mr Bush is still doing his tour of the school and ends up in a class full of fifteen year olds. He walks straight in and says- "Ok guys, who's got a question for the president?" so Big Jo stand up and says "Mr Bush I have three questions for you- Firstly what evidence do you have that proves conclusively that Saddam Husain intends to use his weapons of mass destruction? Secondly why do you feel justified in starting a war that will kill thousands of innocent civilians? and thirdly is it true that the only intrest you have in the gulf is for your own financial gain due to the abundance of oil?"
    Unfortunatly before Mr Bush can answer the school bell goes and all the kids rush out to break, but on returning pretty Sarah stands up and says " Mr President I have five questions for you Firstly what evidence do you have that proves conclusively that Saddam Husain intends to use his weapons of mass destruction? Secondly why do you feel justified in starting a war that will kill thousands of innocent civilians? thirdly is it true that the only intrest you have in the gulf is for your own financial gain due to the abundance of oil? fourthly why did the school bell go twenty minutes early? and fifthly where's Big Jo?..."
     
  17. strat, you miss understand me. I'm not anti american (forgive me if u not calling me so, but i can see why you would think i am).

    I am anti Bush. I am Anti Capitalist. I am Anti Corporate. I am anti Authoritarian. I am Anti right wing. I am Anti Racism. I am anti Ignorance.

    I am very pro america... or at least the concept of liberty in america, i so deaply wish america to get its perception of freedom re-aligned, even if only to as it once was. I wish america would wake up to the world and take respossibility in a manner more suited to the power that humans now have... much like much of Europe and India (two best examples i could think of) are now pushing for.

    I'm mainly talking sustainability here. current American policies are short sighted and unsustainable.


    America, Like great britain (american format copied) now are under rule of elective dictatorships... allowed to get into power due to marketing to the foolish (smart people get conned too though).
    This is Authoritarian society. Liberty was long gone. We are lead to believe it is Liberty because we simply dont get oppressed as violently as we percieve an authoritarian government would do so. This is "Smart Authoritarianism". smart as in it doesn't piss nearly as many people of because they are given the illusion of all that they want., and thus giving less chance of an uprising, rebelion or revolution.

    Even Rebels are catered for in the media... where is their rebelious nature aimed? safely at nothing.

    That which i hate about america, I hate about the UK too, but to a lesser extent but only because it exists here in a lesser amount.

    .................but i still think you seem blind to the damage america causes in the world.
     
  18. oh man ... hannity.

    i just checked that out....

    STRAT!!! your not helping your case by showing overly patriotic crap like that.

    that guy is totally one sided. heck even in the poll on the website it doesn't let you vote for or against the war... like would be the question in any true democratic sence... it asks

    "Some lefties have criticized Sean for supporting the War with Iraq when he did not serve in the military. Do you think you have to serve in the military to support our troops?"

    and the options are:

    "YES. If you did not join up, you can't say anything."
    or
    "NO. Support of the military comes from patriotism, not military training."

    now strat... i know your not stupid, so surely you can see that this is thinly veiled right wing authoritariansim. the hidden answer you cannot escape from but will be saying no matter how you answer is that u support the war & military action. is this FREEDOM? is this DEMOCRACY? i think not.
     


  19. sounds like you would be better off living in North Korea, China, or any other communist country comrad, oh wait..in those countries you wouldn't have the FREEDOM to disagree you wouldn't even have a computer to express yourself. In the FREE world people have the FREEDOM to express themselfs and not worry about the repercussions. I would guess you are in your late teens or early 20's. Again 9/11 change the dynamic of the world. Freedom has a cost and when the dust settles, the world will be a better place once Sadam is gone. Don't forget that at one point the sun never set on the english empire. I am sick and tired of the US not doing what should be done like in 1991 when we could have taken him out then but no...the euros and UN said we couldn't and Bush Sr stood down.

    Desert Storm 2- March to Bagdad coming to your local news
    soon!
     

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