A few I have observed debating and discussing the subject of a more powerful, more knowing being, seem to think that believing in a higher power is ignorant and uneducated. So this begs the question, is it errant to believe in a higher power? Most of us will readily and wholeheartedly admit that we don't know everything, and even the things we do know we can't be certain. So how is one decision for a direction of life any better than another? We won't know until it's to late who was 'right', so where is the error in believing in this way or that?
To me, the existence of some sort of creator/higher power makes the most sense so far. I cant say that I know, it just makes sense, its a belief. I cant image life and all of its intricacies happening without some sort of creative/intelligent force.
The more I study science, the more I wonder about intelligent design. I'm reminded of a poem by Robert Frost ("Design"): In regards to the happenstance of a moth ending up dinner to a spider after getting tapped in its web, he writes, 'What but design of darkness to appall?-- If design govern in a thing so small.' To me this speaks to the question of fate, higher government, and intelligent design. While studying biology I can't help but realize how every man-made engine or circuitry system resembles something already in existence. A circulatory system in a mammal or a plant is naught but a series of molecular and ionic action potential and subsequent electrical impulses. While studying physics I can't help but feel I've been given inside knowledge about what is the make up of the consciousness. What religions refer to as the soul, the Chi, etc. I believe it's just "smaller parts" of what make up the atoms o the bigger stuff. Smaller then subatomic particles. As small as billions of vibrations strings of energy. Then I think, it's too simple. We struggle to understand quantum physics but I'll bet it's painfully simple and maybe if we live this life properly, gain independence and truly know wisdom, we can graduate to another, higher astral plane where petty human issues dont exist and one is enlightened. Who knows! But this post got me thinking!!
You could go down the path of belief, most people do. Belief often comes about as a result of having an experience that sets in motion a search to understand life better, from your own perspective. Knowing is different to belief. It can come from a sense of belief, but it doesn't have to. Just like when you reach for a cup and simply know you will pick it up, that's how some people feel about what they call god. What I might call god will not be what you will, and it is this that often gets people going at each other, once religion gets a hold and organises them into an appropriate club. Stay away from religion. Know or believe what feels true. Keep yourself open to knowing something else. The truth will only become clearer as you go.
dependant on epistemological system. The greatest weakness with the concept is that is often inserted as an opulent and overbearing placeholder within empirical rationalism.
Online discussions/debates aren't forcing you to not believe. I personally believe people should be free to follow whatever path they want, just like we're all free here to discuss our view points. The problem is, the only proof of God is personal proof. So when you can talk about God, others can come back with "Where's the proof you're right?". Your personal beliefs are your personal beliefs, no one can take them away from you, even more so through the internet.. Just like it's my personal belief that religion is fucking lame, easy to corrupt, and that humanity would be further (if by just a lil bit) ahead in our journey. And that the idea of God, personified or universal, is illogical and based off of hear say. It's like 'he said He said' type shit.. I'm actually a pretty nice person in person, I leave my venting/debating for close friends and online. I treat people how I'd like to be treated and/or how they treat others. If "Jesus" had anything right, it was that. You do that and everything else falls into place. As for the "treat them how they treat others" bit, I believe that the more a person experiences what they dish out to others, the more likely it is for something to click and them think 'I don't like that, I should stop doing it to other people'. Even though it'd be close, I'd say it works more than it doesn't. Hell, I use it with dogs at my job.. If a dog starts humping too much, I throw him in with the all the other dogs that like to hump, and hump, and hump. Chances are any time you check on them, someone is humping someone. The next day I let them go until they start again and put them in. I think I broke the one though, lol, he was looking at me while getting humped with this "ok, I'm done, you can get me the fuck out of here" and doesn't seem to care to hump. All in all though they seem like they're humping less and less. Random story rant about getting treated how you treat others.. Point of the post is, if you're enjoying your freedom to discuss your point of view (no matter how void of evidence and logic), let everyone else. Have you ever tried? Like truly tried? I know a lot of theists claim they gave up God and converted to atheism, then went back after researching, but I don't believe they truly gave up the idea of believing in gods. I don't see how anyone can claim to not believe in God and then do research, get down to the intricacies and go "Oh, God must of done that, makes sense". That happens because it really doesn't make sense to you or because you don't feel like digging deeper and seeing what intricacies lay within the intricacies.. Instead of looking at life as intelligent design, try looking at what you study (like in biology) as designs that work. If a design works, then it works. Life carries on. If it doesn't work, then whatever it is is going to die off. Take hydrogen for example. I know it's not really life, but it's the most abundant element in the universe. It was the first element to come together and work. It's not like it just appeared out of nowhere, there was trial and error before that. Could of millions, even billions of years of failures, designs that didn't work. Retarded elements that appear and break apart just as fast. You can apply it to almost any level of existence, if it works, it works. Call it natural selection for biology, still the same principle. Nothing just *poof* appeared.. Before fish had fins and swam, their ancestors went through trial and error generation after generation. Mutations occur randomly and when one appears that is more beneficial, it continues on because it works.. Those random mutations that don't work usually end up dying before it manages to spread it's tainted seed. The journey the universe and life took to get to where it is is amazing, don't spoil it by thinking there's someone behind the curtain whom you'll never meet while you're alive and enjoying life..
I'm not claiming that I know for a fact that a creator exists, i've said this plenty of times. It just makes the most sense to me out of anything else so far and I only become more convinced as time goes by. I am aware of the fact that there is a possibility i'm wrong. I cant force myself to believe differently. Years ago, I used to say exactly the same things as the atheists on here do.
You said you can't imagine it, I asked have you ever truly tried.. I never said that you're claiming to know, I just would like an answer to the question.
Somehow I missed the entire part where you said you were an atheist, but I don't believe it.. What piece(s) of information could turn you from not believing in something that's made up? Santa, the Easter Bunny, whatever else, when you find out it's not real, you've found out it's not real. You wouldn't begin to believe in Santa unless you saw him for yourself..
Of course I have truly tried. I have questioned my beliefs heavily, in the end a creator ends up making the most sense.
Ok, dont believe it, I dont waste time making up lies....I even remember Sam_Spade sent me a message a few years ago about how I was being a dick towards Christians/believers. I could write a thousand novels about the reasons why a creator makes the most sense to me, even that wouldnt be enough. You're acting like I simply changed my mind after reading a couple of sentences out of a book. It took me years of thought, research and reflecting on life...and it hasnt stopped yet.
I had a few OBEs produced from certain tryptamine producing plants and fungi that lead me to believe in more powerful beings that have influence in our world. The first of which took me far out into space where I met a group of beings who were pissed I arrived ahead of schedule but were willing to hear me out. Then they got pissed I was trying to speak so I had this matrix like download/upload and was sent back to my body. It took months to sort out the information. Following the first experience I pleaded for proof that I wasn't crazy in my new found beliefs and what I experienced was real. What I received in the form of a dream was pretty amazing. To make a long story short, I was in the Adam's Family house and Cousin It was speaking plain English and I was the wtf, I'm not supposed to understand you. Then this guy said he can do whatever I (the guy) says he can. I asked him who he was and why he could do that. He told me he was Charlie Addams and he created him, and he was sent to answer my questions. We had a long discussion about life and spirituality. Upon waking I decided to look up who created the Addam's Family and it was in fact Charlie Addams who created the original comic strip characters. Perhaps it was subconscious knowledge but my life is better from heeding the lessons I had learned. Take home message is all religious have aspects that are correct and incorrect and most aspects are polluted by man. Just because religions tend to suck, doesn't mean there is no more powerful beings out there... I can't help but believe...
Im not sure im convinced in a higher power like a conscious being but maybe a complex math code making other codes..I do believe in parallel universes though and had the privilege to have an obe when i think i died or was just trippin balls and transcended out into the universe and saw every question and answer that could every be asked flash in front of me and just felt one with everything then rushed back into my body and i jumped up freaking out about it to everyone..didnt even know about multiverse theories then (and it was new years eve 1999 at midnight so that was weird) and that got me to learn about it definitely believe we are all connected to each other not only in this universe but an infinite amount of everyone in all possible universes and we already know all possibilities but cant access it..that kinda has to have some kind of creator though that could construct the building blocks of matter or if its all just math who made the math?..who knows though really but if i die and come back grasscity will be the first to know lol
[quote name='"Kush Lord"'] Ok, dont believe it, I dont waste time making up lies....I even remember Sam_Spade sent me a message a few years ago about how I was being a dick towards Christians/believers. I could write a thousand novels about the reasons why a creator makes the most sense to me, even that wouldnt be enough. You're acting like I simply changed my mind after reading a couple of sentences out of a book. It took me years of thought, research and reflecting on life...and it hasnt stopped yet.[/quote] Another possibility is its be engraved way too deep. First girl I ever dated could be holding an apple and call it an orange. If I said "its an apple" she'd reply "I know..". Not all the time, but she'd let it slip from time to time. Their family ate a lot of fruit.. but it worked vice versa too. Call an orange an apple. Her mom is bipolar, so I asked her dad if something was a lil off, not in that exact terminology. He told me something totally fucked up, something he regrets. Dude used to tell her apples were oranges and oranges were apples as a kid, and the shit still hangs around. That could be what happened to you. But I'm sure you were raised by atheist parents...
During your induced OBE were you totally sober once outside your body? I was very sober and very lucid. When I came back I wasn't tripping anymore, but when I left I was crazy tripping. I have no idea how long I was gone though... I went off into the woods alone. I know I went from a fungi peak to nearly sober from the time I left to the time I got back. I am thinking it was a hour or two of being gone...
[quote name='"AgMan"'] whoa![/quote] It's the same thing with God for most society. Since birth, we are all exposed to God for the most part. The idea of God is always there, on our money, in our pledge of allegiance, on TV, all kinds of places. So the idea of God (whether real or made up) is just something we are told from another person or group of persons. Just like when dude told his daughter that shit.. but if she would of been born and dropped in the middle of a forest, abandoned yet somehow lived.. if she came across an apple and an orange, she'd call them whatever she wants. She would never find the words apple or orange, just like one would never find God if never exposed..
[quote name='"AgMan"'] Bold statement. If that were true how did the concept of god begin?[/quote] It evolved, just like everything else. Our bodies, our minds, our language, both oral and verbal. I'd say that the very first step was when tribes would praise things that give them life or take their life (the deer they hunt, the wolves they feud with, the river they get fish from, on and on) and evolved into what it is today.