Logic transcends humans, I already gave examples of that, all life uses logic. For a bacteria to find food it has to have a logical processor, once it recognizes the pattern it can find its food source, if it didnt connect the logic of X input means food then it would die. The law of noncontradiction is essential for evidence to be relevant, it is to say If the light bulb is on THEN it is not off. Since the light bulb is on THEN it is not off. If the light bulb is off THEN it is not on. Since the light bulb is off THEN it is not on. Those are logical statements BOTH of which cannot be true at the same time, meaning not everything is possible. You can say like Schrodingers cat thought experiment that it is in some superposition of indeterminacy, you can say the light bulb does not have a definite state of being on or off until we measure/observe it. So it is either/or, and when we measure it, it will definitely be one or the other, on or off, but cannot be both. Sent from my VS995 using Grasscity Forum mobile app
We have no evidence to say that bacteria use logic to do anything, bacteria might just DO things without any train of semblance of thought or logic, they might just simply do. We have no evidence and will never know, until evidence is presented. You have no evidence to say that logic transcends humans. Therefore you are believing in something without evidence, and that is stupid, as I've explained a thousand times. The lightbulb CAN be both on and off at the same time, because there can exist a way for lightbulbs to be on and off that humans can not comprehend. Do you not see how I can use this train of thought for every single possible thing, and that makes everything possible, everything logical, and logic has no meaning. You're speaking pseudo-intellectual bull, and you're trying to be too smart for your own good, not realizing why that's dumb.
No the light flickers on and off at 60hz. https://evolutionnews.org/2013/05/bacteria_perfor/ "The team realized that they were simply altering an already-existing biological logic. “Organisms must process information encoded via developmental and environmental signals to survive and reproduce,”" Sent from my VS995 using Grasscity Forum mobile app
Dude, logic is a human term used to describe phenomenon in the world. It's a word with a clear established meaning. This proves nothing. Logic does not "transcend" human reasoning, just because another organism follows logical method, if they do. Logic is a word created by humans, to describe human things. It's language. Do bacteria say they use logic? Do cats say they use logic? No, only we do. It's a word, not some godly existing phenomenon. You act like logic is some concrete thing out there in the universe, that's the apex of pseudo-intellectual bullshit. Even if bacteria follow logical methods, logic is a term created by humans, and ALL it is is language, nothing else.
That is ridiculous, give me a break man. "Do bacteria say they use logic?" What kind of asinine question is that, and what relevance does it have to the fact that they DO use logic. Logical systems are a human invention because we realize nature operates on logic, so if we construct a system that gets ever closer to the natural one, we will obtain a deeper understanding if how nature works. Let me reiterate. Logical systems are a human invention, the process of logic occurs naturally befote humans were around to invent the systems of analysis we call logic. Sent from my VS995 using Grasscity Forum mobile app
As I've already said, logic a part of human language and a way of in part describing human thought process and conundrum within the real world , not some separate entity. It's 100% limited to human construct, because it is human construct. Bacteria don't follow "logic" we are the ones that say they do.
As I've already said, evidence of language is the fact of how it's been used prior. Established usage.
Show me, I want something tangible here no more beating around the bush Sent from my VS995 using Grasscity Forum mobile app
It is like saying there is no such thing as electromagnetism, electromagnetism is just a word. It is a word, but the word is a description of natural processes. Without electromagnetism, we wouldn't be here to discover the nature of the phenomenon, so electromagnetism transcends humanity, it isnt a human invention. Do you see what I am getting at? I am honestly trying to make sense of what you are saying, as obnoxious or stubborn as I may seem, I assure you that is not for any other reason than that I am seeing flaws in what you are saying and attempting to show you what I am seeing. Sent from my VS995 using Grasscity Forum mobile app
Lol I started feeling the same, but I am trying to let it go too. It is pretty ridiculous that two intelligent people cannot come to terms in a lengthy attempt, no wonder the rest of the world is insane! Sent from my VS995 using Grasscity Forum mobile app
Btw one thing that seems to seperate humans from bacteria is that we don't operate strictly on logic, there are other considerations at work that are not logical, one being emotions. Then we want something to eat we dont just evaluate it logically (need food, get food), we use emotions, like what kind if food do I FEEL like having. Actually there are studies showing that gut bacteria actually manipulate us into eating what they need, which is partly why I like sugary shit that I shouldnt eat. Edit. Which ties into why simpler life forms have more predictive behaviors, they operate on simpler logic. Sent from my VS995 using Grasscity Forum mobile app
No, I am not saying there is no such thing as electromagnetic whatever, when have I said there is no such thing as logic. There is, it is just not a tangible thing, it's simply a form of language. Bacteria do not use "logic" we are the ones who say they do because we have applied meaning to the word logic, that we created. Once again, you're on some pseudo intellectual bull. It's very simple. Logic is human language, nothing else. Without humans to give it meaning, it is nothing.
Well I think we are close here. You are thinking of logic as a human endeavour, which as I said, the discipline of logic is, but it is an attempt to discover how nature works. So when I say bacteria operate on logic, I don't mean they are making logical arguments, I mean they are using (relatively) simple computations to adapt, survive, reproduce, etc, and those are logical computations. If they were not logical and orderly they creature wouldnt survive. Sent from my VS995 using Grasscity Forum mobile app
They are only operating on logical computations if humans are around to call it logical. Without humans the entire of premise of logic is nothing.
Yea we are right there man. Regardless of what word you use to describe it, what humans are doing with logic is trying to discover how nature works, do we agree there? Sent from my VS995 using Grasscity Forum mobile app
Yeah I agree with that, I think logic might do more than just figure out the natural world. It allows us to function, otherwise we'd be sitting there worrying about every possibility while walking down the street, or trying to smash our hand through concrete 1000000 times and never moving on from the experiment. But it's all human and limited to humanity.
I agree logic can do more than that, that is in part what I mean by its ability transcend, just like math. We would call logic an analogue of a deeper truth. In other words, humans, unlike bacteria, realize that we are both operating in some patterns, and we are trying to reverse engineer how these patterns work. Sent from my VS995 using Grasscity Forum mobile app