Isn't believing in hell a prerequisite for being a part of the largest religion of the western world?
False... Or better yet... how could you know? Silly side beckons the question, do you even know who Werner Heisenberg was? More serial side beckons the question, if you don't believe in God, how can you comment on the direct effects of having Faith? "Thou wilt keep him in perfect peace, whose mind is stayed on thee." -Isaiah
No not really? Why do you religious types think quotes like this bolster an argument that a magical sky wizard really exists? It's like trying to prove Santa is real by quoting "The night before Christmas".
Oh and I can comment on some of the direct effects of faith by actually seeing the direct effects of faith with every suicide bomber in the news, with every teenaged girl who dies from an illegal abortion. The effects of faith don't just effect the faithful.
Wouldnt that simply be evidence that they have faith in the wrong thing? I have faith in truth, honesty, kindness, rights, etc.
I would argue that blind faith opens up the possibility to believe in either good things and bad things and these dangerous zealous fanatics are simply a product of probability. The use of the word faith imo muddies the water when discussing topics in religion. Some people may equivocate faith with blind faith, which I would personally define as a complete trust in something without justification. Certainly the word faith isn't necessarily defined that way. Faith,according to google is defined as "strong belief in God or in the doctrines of a religion, based on spiritual apprehension rather than proof." Of course the spiritual apprehension kind of makes it vague imo, since the word spiritual can mean many things. But for the sake of argument if we define spiritual as religious beliefs, the whole concept becomes nonsensical for an atheist. I would not say I have faith in those concepts you mentioned, but I would rather call them assumptions or axioms towards terms such as truth and reasonable expectation towards honesty and kindness. I use the term assumption, because these terms are useful and without them it becomes difficult to elaborate on subjects. Additionally, I use the term reasonable expectation, because I have experienced the effects honesty and kindness can have on me and other beings.
Well said. It is funny, many religious people well recognize God as just, merciful, pinnacle of truth, love etc but dont actually follow that character. Their problem, in my opinion, is their brainwashing from religious milieu and religious texts. The truth can be found within most systems but many people dont seem to be able to parse the two. Truth is my God, always subject to change, unlike religions which have one infallible notion and all inputs must conform to that notion.
On the internet, it's more hip to be atheist. Every time I've seen someone express their belief in a religion online, it's followed by a quick, witty, humorous post knocking it down and people love that. I found this especially in college. I think there's a big difference between being an atheist and being an anti-religious asshole. Two weeks ago at college I felt like knocking the fuck out of some kids because there was a big group surrounding this "religious nut". My natural response to a religious nut saying verses into a microphone is to walk by and maybe throw him a smile. But these kids were mocking him, making obscene gestures behind his back for videos, throwing insults at what he was wearing (raggy clothes), and worst of all from the way he was talking he VERY OBVIOUSLY had a mental handicap. I don't know the name of it but it was like asbergers or something else idk. He was being super kind to the people around him and they ended up getting him to attempt to sing to them like a fucking showpiece. Fuck these people. This leads to the beginning of my post. It's easy to be a quick witted asshole, but to get beat on and embarrassed because of what you believe in is something these twats will never understand. This isnt calling out anyone on here, I haven't even read this thread fully.
I am a life-long atheist, in a psychonaut kind of way, and I agree with this. Obviously there are real religious assholes and zealots out there, who use their "faith" as a cudgel to beat down or annoy others, and those people can use some mockery. I have however encountered fellow atheists, or so they called themselves, who were far bigger assholes than any of my religious friends ever could be. As an atheist, I'll still take a civil, polite, and respectful religious person over an aggressive, toxic atheist any day.
Well said. Wittgenstein would argue that we shouldn't, and can't really ever strive for what is absolutely True. The best we can ever hope to do, is strive for that which is True enough. I don't mean that to come off as some lukewarm relativist bs, since I'm not a fan of absolute relativism at all when it comes to the human condition. It does however seem like our species' "Truths" constantly change as our paradigm does. Truth seems to be a moving image in time.
I think we should strive for it even thought we cannot attain it perfectly. It is the process of coming to know or discovery. Similar to morality, we don't know what the absolute objective moral imperatives are but if we admit there is a pinnacle, then we can strive to increasingly know and understand them.
I am an ordained minister. I listed myself as christian even tho I lean more toward Agnostic beliefs. I think if people would become a little more knowledgeable about what was found in the dead sea scrolls and the place of learning that was near there we would have fewer atheist and more people who understand they are disillusioned with modern religious trends. Some people such as me believe the bible is guidebook on how to get along with your fellowman. What has filtered down to us is the censored version of events. There are many gospels that are not included in the New Testament. How come?
I am an ordained minister. I listed myself as christian even tho I lean more toward Agnostic beliefs. I think if people would become a little more knowledgeable about what was found in the dead sea scrolls and the place of learning that was near there we would have fewer atheist and more people who understand they are disillusioned with modern religious trends. Some people such as me believe the bible is guidebook on how to get along with your fellowman. What has filtered down to us is the censored version of events. There are many gospels that are not included in the New Testament. How come?
I don't know if there is any evidence to support my suspicion, but I suspect that the events described in the Bible are manipulated. Some things maybe added, some changed or altogether removed for an agenda. Piecing things together it seems to me that the character of (Jesus, Yeshua, Christ, etc) was quite troublesome for the ruling elites of the time. I also suspect that they embarked on a mission to eradicate any texts or stories, or even people that challenged the narrative the elites wanted to enshrine. The Dead Sea Scrolls and the extra biblical texts that have turned up are indeed circumstantial evidence that something unusual happened.
Sadly, a lot of people who liked to publicly mock people who look or act different in high school really haven't outgrown it in college. As a lifelong atheist (yeah even as a little kid I had problems with blind faith) it's not the religious nuts preaching in the street that bothers me it's the ones crafting our laws. I have a major problem with lawmakers that just don't get the whole separation between church and state. I have a problem with religious lawmakers that think yes, your employer should get to decide what medical coverage you're allowed to have based on your employer's personal religious views. I have a big fucking problem with lawmakers who, like their followers, just cherry pick a sentence from the old testament and use that as justification to treat their fellow Americans like shit. I have a problem with a sitting president like Donald J Trump who has the distinction of attending anti-LGBT rally recently in order to cater to the most base and extreme religious elements in this country. I can't come up with a single religiously based government in the world that any American would voluntarily live so I'm a little disturbed by the lawmakers who are eager to cater to a narrow religious extremism for cheap votes. History has shown us that religion can be extremely destructive more often than not for healthy open societies. I don't care if you want to worship a rock just keep it to yourself and don't throw it at me. As far as this Atheist is concerned if you want to babble nonsense on a street or or church then knock yourself out but if you want to shove your religious nonsense into our laws then we have a big problem. The recent and aggressive bullying by religious populations that have intruded into our laws like the SCOTUS Hobby Lobby decision or rolling back anti-discriminatory protections for the LGBT community has brought out a strong resentment towards some of the religious populations in this country that I've never had before.
I became disillusioned with organized religion and decided it wasn't for me. I became a non believer myself. Life kinda intervened in my case and I found that I personally needed a higher power. If your higher power is a rock and it makes your life better I am happy for you. I don't preach. I got ordained so I could if I decided to start a prison ministry just to give the guys inside contact with the free world. I believe the old testament is the Jewish creation story to explain how the world came to be. All cultures had that before being eradicated.The New Testament to me is a guide on how to treat others in organized society. I just wish we had all the Gospels that were suppressed by the Church. I do need to believe in God. Each to there on.