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Is 180 hot enough to make oil or butter?

Discussion in 'Weed Edibles' started by Dime Bag, Nov 6, 2012.

  1. I am trying to make oil or butter without smell and I found a way if I use my mini crock pot called a little dipper. But it only goes to 180 degrees Fahrenheit. Is this hot enough to make oil or butter if I let it cook for a while?
     
  2. Yeah, you can make oil with no heat if you wait long enough. Just mix the bud with oil and leave it in your closet for two weeks. Shake it up every day.

    Heat will speed up the process of THC extraction, so 180 degrees is fine. Let it sit for a few hours I guess. Let us know how it goes :)
     
  3. #3 sleepy96, Nov 6, 2012
    Last edited by a moderator: Nov 6, 2012
    Not sure about heat speeding up the speed of extraction, but I do know for certain that heat is required at some form somewhere in the process with edibles. The THC-A needs to be converted to THC (by applying heat) in order to be bio available. This is why you can't eat raw bud, the THC must be activated by heat first.
     
  4. I do plan on cooking with it or eating it or whatever, so I need the good stuff to be active.... (?)

    I left it plugged in a while longer and it actually seems to get up to 200 F if that makes a difference
     
  5. [quote name='"sleepy96"']

    Not sure about heat speeding up the speed of extraction, but I do know for certain that heat is required at some form somewhere in the process with edibles. The THC-A needs to be converted to THC (by applying heat) in order to be bio available. This is why you can't eat raw bud, the THC must be activated by heat first.[/quote]

    Like virtually any chemical reaction, the addition or subtraction of heat does change the rate at which the reaction takes place.
    In terms of extraction, faster moving molecules will lend a hand to creating a more consistent solution.
    Think of it in terms of making any mother sauce. The amount of emulsification that takes place, and the speed at which it takes place, is directly related to the amount, and rate, of heat applied. Too little heat will leave you with an inconsistent sauce where the ingredients are unable to properly dissolve into your intended solution.
    Too much heat and your sauce will almost coagulate, leaving you with a thick, overcooked, muck of a sauce. The idea is to evenly distribute your solute(s) into your solvent(s) as homogeneously as possible.
    The key with edibles is to be knowledgeable enough of the thermodynamic properties of your material(s) in order to avoid vaporizing the medicine, leaving you with a product with little to no medicinal value.

    The application of heat over time to your glandular material, known as decarboxylation, is essential to produce, like sleepy said, an active and bio available solution. The decarbing process is most beneficial before your material is processed into solution because this ensures almost maximum coverage of chemical conversion can take place, largely in part to the increased exposed surface area of glandular material present. Once suspended in solution, your glandular material will be much harder to activate, as it won't receive the even heat distribution like it would in it's unprocessed form.

    Think of cooking a Turkey. The internal maximum internal temperature reached throughout the cooking process will be less than the maximum temperature achieved on the outside, or skin, of the bird. Now if you ground that Turkey up into tiny, trichrome-sized, pieces...the max temp would be virtually uniform across all pieces parts of the bird and the end result would be an almost perfectly even cooked Turkey.

    Throughout the process of decarboxylation, the removal of Carbon and Oxygen, in the form of CO2, is dropped from the compounds. This is where the THC-A to THC conversion is described.
     
  6. [quote name='"Shamallama"']

    Like virtually any chemical reaction, the addition or subtraction of heat does change the rate at which the reaction takes place.
    In terms of extraction, faster moving molecules will lend a hand to creating a more consistent solution.
    Think of it in terms of making any mother sauce. The amount of emulsification that takes place, and the speed at which it takes place, is directly related to the amount, and rate, of heat applied. Too little heat will leave you with an inconsistent sauce where the ingredients are unable to properly dissolve into your intended solution.
    Too much heat and your sauce will almost coagulate, leaving you with a thick, overcooked, muck of a sauce. The idea is to evenly distribute your solute(s) into your solvent(s) as homogeneously as possible.
    The key with edibles is to be knowledgeable enough of the thermodynamic properties of your material(s) in order to avoid vaporizing the medicine, leaving you with a product with little to no medicinal value.

    The application of heat over time to your glandular material, known as decarboxylation, is essential to produce, like sleepy said, an active and bio available solution. The decarbing process is most beneficial before your material is processed into solution because this ensures almost maximum coverage of chemical conversion can take place, largely in part to the increased exposed surface area of glandular material present. Once suspended in solution, your glandular material will be much harder to activate, as it won't receive the even heat distribution like it would in it's unprocessed form.

    Think of cooking a Turkey. The internal maximum internal temperature reached throughout the cooking process will be less than the maximum temperature achieved on the outside, or skin, of the bird. Now if you ground that Turkey up into tiny, trichrome-sized, pieces...the max temp would be virtually uniform across all pieces parts of the bird and the end result would be an almost perfectly even cooked Turkey.

    Throughout the process of decarboxylation, the removal of Carbon and Oxygen, in the form of CO2, is dropped from the compounds. This is where the THC-A to THC conversion is described.[/quote]

    What would you reccomend as a decarb temp and time?

    Would heat need to be applied to the oil and herb mixture afterwards? Would it help/harm it?

    Couldn't I just create the mixture and it would decarb as it extracts in the oil?

    Any other help would be awesome
     
  7. #7 Shamallama, Nov 6, 2012
    Last edited by a moderator: Nov 6, 2012
    [quote name='"Dime Bag"']

    What would you reccomend as a decarb temp and time?

    Would heat need to be applied to the oil and herb mixture afterwards? Would it help/harm it?

    Couldn't I just create the mixture and it would decarb as it extracts in the oil?

    Any other help would be awesome[/quote]

    There are varying discussions on temps and times for decarbing, but the thing to remember is that decarboxylation is simply a scientific term for the drying/curing process that people typically associate with smoking herb.
    With whole flowers, decarboxylation requires a much longer time period in order to activate the glandular material, especially when you consider that light degrades cannabinoids. Otherwise we would be able to leave our nugs out for the sun to speed up the curing process. It is possible to dry/cure your bud by applying heat, but this typically leads to a loss of aromatic properties of cannabis, namely terpenes. Terpenes are largely responsible for much of the taste and smell experienced when smoking cannabis and so you can see why this is not at all the preferred method.
    On the other hand, the taste and smell of herb is, many times, intended to be masked or hidden by other overpowering ingredients, like chocolate, and so a loss of aromatic properties is relatively negligible. This is one reason why decarbing by applying heat over time is usually the preferred method for culinary cannabis.

    When deciding the temps/times to decarb your material go over a quick mental checklist first.
    What type of material are you using?
    Whole flowers? Shake? Dry sifted hash? A different type of hash?
    How old/new is your material?
    Is it freshly harvested? Or has it been dried/cured extensively already?
    All of these factors play a part in choosing the ideal temps/times to decarb.

    The way I like to approach the subject is to think of temperature as the independent variable and time as the dependent variable. The quality and state of your material will determine the time it takes to activate. The temperature I like to use is 220F, and the time period varies depending on my material.

    Applying heat isn't exactly necessary to create your oil, but will go a long way to speed up the process of creating a consistent solution. As far as after your solution is done, you should actually freeze it in order to greatly extend the shelf life. Some people like to freeze, thaw and filter, and then freeze again so they can remove any impurities left over.

    Decarboxylation does take place while dissolving your solute (glandular material) into your solvent (fat or alcohol) but only to a certain extent. There will be far less exposed surface area once suspended in solution and it would take an exorbitant amount of extra time to fully activate.

    I hope this helps answer your questions!
     
  8. #8 Sgtstadanko707, Nov 18, 2012
    Last edited by a moderator: Nov 18, 2012
    Seems like there is some knowledge in here I have made oil numerous time in my crock pot. Can I make butter in the same process. I just let in brew on low for a few hrs and cheez cloth to get all the plant matter out. It works great for oil and I want to try butter.
     
  9. [quote name='"NorCali86"']Seems like there is some knowledge in here I have made oil numerous time in my crock pot. Can I make butter in the same process. I just let in brew on low for a few hrs and cheez cloth to get all the plant matter out. It works great for oil and I want to try butter.[/quote]

    Absolutely!
    The crock pot method is, typically, the preferred method when making butter. I let my crock pot work for several hours, anywhere between 8-24 depending on the material, checking periodically and stirring once every few hours.

    Most crock pots work very well because of their ability to maintain a constant, evenly distributed, temperature. This also removes the necessity for adding water in an attempt to regulate said temperature, which lends a hand into creating a more pure final solution.
     
  10. #10 Sgtstadanko707, Nov 19, 2012
    Last edited by a moderator: Nov 19, 2012
    Cool i making some now. I did 2 lbs of butter and about 5 oz of trim an pop corn buds all ground up.
     
  11. Shamallama your the man

    ~Good martial artists and good stoners need the same traits. Control, timing and a good set of lungs - Myself
     
  12. [quote name='"CagedToker"']Shamallama your the man[/quote]

    Ha! Thank you for the compliment though I must give credit where credit is due...

    The majority of the information I cited in this thread comes from reading countless posts made by other blades who are far more experienced with culinary cannabis than I.
    Most notably, miss Culinary Cannabis herself...BKS (BadKittySmiles)

    She has selflessly provided copious amounts of information on these boards for all to benefit from, and I simply try to take advantage of the fact that she so openly shares her knowledge of the subject matter.
    BKS is my canna-idol...I highly recommend anyone interested in cooking with herb to read her posts cover to cover. You won't regret it.

    P.S. BKS!! If you happen to be lurking this thread, I'm REALLY looking forward to your cook book! **crosses fingers for you!**
     
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