IRAQ! What shoudl the USA do?

well, these allies dont want in, mainy the ones i know ur talking bout, france and germany. so that voids that option

We are in, if we leave then things well get worse so that voids that out

i say we stay the course until the end, and get some $$ back from their oil sales.

but i voted to party, i mean, who the hell doesnt love a party.

 

enlist our allies help? You act as if they are lining up to go over there

 

lol i can tell.

it is funny about the allies though, they openly stated after Kerry gave his grand plan they wanted nothing to do with it. There goes the basic foundation of his forign policy. but you wont hear that from the media, it would go against their agenda.

 

I think one of the big problems is the US wants other nations to join in under american command. That\'s not gonna happen. If the whole case were left to the UN, I\'m sure more countries would be willing to send troops

 

alot of them said they are in no way interested in sending toops, reguardless of who our pres is. That means theyre not helping, reguardless of policy.

i think the poll is not a good one, it is like saying would you rather grow your own weed, and take all the risk and whatnot, or havesone give you some weed. sure id like someone to give me some weed, but everyone i ask says no.

i also dont think our outspoken opponets against the war should now be able to profit from its reconstruction.

 

I watched a slide show from a cousin that had been stationed in several areas of Iraq for a total of 19 months. The pictures I saw were something that I could not imagine. Room after room of Red Cross meds and supplies, stored in each of Suddam\'s palaces, in many rooms. Also there were box after box of school supplies, all kept away from the people. The schools were empty of anything you would think of in a school, but oh the weapons and the American money found there! Also the stories and details he talked about. He was very negative when he knew that he had to go but told of how grateful he was to witness the change we were helping make, so the Iraq people can be free. Yes it is hard for the average Iraq, what we did to there country to get rid of their dictator. He talked mostly of the people especially the children, how grateful they were, how happy and how wonderful it was to show happiness without disappearing or being killed. I came away from that with a whole different perspective on this. Also what would we want if situations were reversed?

 

in that respect, the milatery is overwhemly in favor of the war in in favor of bush. i saw a poll maybe a week ago that said the milaerty supports bush 4 to 1.

War is hell, there is no doubt about it. But living where i do, near a base, i hear from alot of people what goes on over there. Most have said they feel they are doing a good thing there, freeing the people.

My buddy is a marine, and when he got back he told me alot of the same things painfullife is telling me. he said the people could accually show happiness, the women could accually walk around in public, without fear.

You cant use hindsight to say oh we shouldnt have went because saddam didnt have WMDs. He was an evil bastard. At the time we went, everyone thought we should, thus we went. Kerry supporterd it, edwards supported it, they were on the senate intelligence committee, so to say bush rushed us to war is hypocricy. Kerry and edwards voted for that rush.

 

get the members of the PNAC and/or Skull&Bones to foot the bill since they fucked the place up, let the Iraqi people decide how they want their nation rebuilt... how about try getting a linux based e-democracy started there. what better place for the first nation wide trial run of e-democracy. then get the troops out and give them and their families a life time of free health care (would go without saying for the UK troops) for all the ill effects of all that exposure to uranium and the drugs that were tested en-mass upon them without proper trials (u just know that shit went down this time too right?).... but hey.. main thing is, leave it to the iraqi people, they deserve that much at least after, ...what has it been... 40 years ? 50 years ? 80 years ? of non soverein interventions. i mean really, was their despotism, or monarchy really that bad, ie worse than the systems of government we (UK gov, and later, US gov) imposed upon them... and who are we to IMPOSE DEMOCRACY upon them this time... woops, too late, we fucked them over again.... raaaaaa!


sorry, i just fell into a rant after i said my piece.


there are alot of evil bastards rulling nations these days... we gonna go and depose them all!?

fuck! look out world.. this is worse than the Orwellian constant war. i feel sick thinkin about it.

ya know.... i agree, we sould do something about it... but blowing shit up just isnt the answer, nor is telling people how to live, like we know any better. to asume we do is to be as bad as the supremasists of Nazi germany.

 

Yes you can, because we shouldn\'t have. You can\'t undo what was done, but you can recognize that we were wrong in our reasons (notice I didn\'t say wrong in our intentions before you jump all over me).

Not everyone thought we should. Just because Kerry and Edwards supported it doesn\'t mean that everyone did. They aren\'t senators from my state, they don\'t represent me.

Just because we gave them radioactive poisoning with our depleted uranium shells and then used sanctions so they couldn\'t get medical equipment to treat cancer or try and save the babies that would likely die soon after birth as a result of the radiation doesn\'t mean we did the wrong thing. It all depends on your defintion of morality.

Careful now, you know Tom Ridge keeps an eye on these forums. Watch out for black helicopters.

 

if you watch that, dont u owe it to yourself to watch this.

http://www.fahrenhype911.com/
you wont see the liberal media hype this one..... and i bet u wont watch it eather....

they are both stupid, but you should watch one if you watch the other, or your not getting balanced news, and i know u would do that......

i mean, other than the 50 something proven lies in moore\'s movie, there is nothing there but anti bush regurgitation. I knew you were liberal, but goddamn, drooling over that piece of shit puts you off the radar.

forming an opinion from eather movie shows u dont have the brain capacity to form your own opinions. You get them from propaganda films. i would compare it to refer madness in terms of accuracy.

edit:http://www.citizensunited-interactive.org/c41.11/
i think the woman talking about the dictator sounds just like you.. accually like alot of you...

btw, alot of those goons are suing b/c their words were taken out of context. i have respect for everyone, liberal, conservative, black, white, but more so our troops. I lost what respect i had for you, what respect i had for any of your post, and i know alot of service men, and i bet you would say that to their face, or my face for that matter. Disrespecting our troops is shitty, it shows your class, or lack there of.

 

I think all of our allies you said that dont want to get into our war, will once they see how much they will benefit from a safe and stable middle east.

 

We do know how much the world wold benefit from a safe and stable middle east. We just don\'t agree on the means to achieve this.

 

yes i have seen it, i downloaded b/c i dont want to give him my money, i thought it was a well made film, but it was very inaccurate. Honestly, i can understand how the far left would like it, but you have to admit, its nothing but a propaganda piece. documentries are based on fact, not things taken out of context, some fact, and outright lies.

now, are u brave enough to see the other film? the one that destroies moores? im willing to bet ur not. It was made by dick morris, who was clintons campaign guy in 96. He has alot of facts about clinton that make himlook like an ass.

1 example. sudan had bin laden captured, and clinton wouldnt take him. i think instead of moore blaming bush, he should blame clinton. Clinton let him get away several more times as well.

as far as the milatery goes, i got my associates from a milatery college, i live near a base, and i know alot of servicemen and women. I went to school with them, and alot of my high school buddies have since enlisted as well. I persoanlly dont want to join, i am too much of a smart ass and i hate people yelling orders at me.

however, i have nothing but respect for those who do go in. if you believe in the war or not, they didnt start it, they are following orders. To call them names, to me, is one of the worst things a person could do, it shows a lack or respect for their country and their sacrafice. i know there are not many patriotic people reading this, but i love my country, flaws and all. if it wasnt for men and women like them, we wouldnt have the freedoms we have today. My grandfather was a national guard, my great uncle was in WW1, my other grandpa guraded the tomb of the unknown soliders in Arlington Cemetery in the early 1950s. To bash the milatery, is to bash them and their service to this country. Those morons stormed a beach and faught hitler back to germany to save ur beloved europe.

I think that is probably the thing that first turned me off about kerry, other than his voteing record. To go to war, come back, and slam your fellow troops is just shitty. no other word to describe it. I have heard accounts of people being tortured based on his testamony alone in vietnam. The man is a fucking admited war criminal. There is a mural honoring him in hanoi, fucking hanoi. That is why im not voting Bednarik, because i cant let an asshole like that run my country. That and i think bush is the only candidate who will fight the terrorist, even today, kerry said terrorism was a \"nusence\". he compared it to gambling and prostitution.

I guess bashing the milatery is just one of the things that really sets me off. i can tolerate people bashing my country, but not the men and women the protect and defend our freedoms. That being said, i got a little heavy handed with the typing in my last post, but as a personal favor, i would like for you to not bash them publicly. I know their mentality, i dont agree with the \"brainwashing\" they undergo, but they are putting their life on the line so i dont have to, so i can sit here and smoke bud while my friends, people i have smoked with, drank with, done all kinds of drugs with, are in iraq and afganistan fighting.

edit: after kerry gave his iraq plan in the first debate, france and germany publicy said if kerry wins they still are not going to help us in the war. Some other countries would help with a change or policy, but the main 2 will not.

also, Skinner, congrats on a norwegian winning the nobel prize in economics.

 

Oh man. Now, I consider myself fairly left on the political spectrum (though I hate to put labels on such things because my opinion varies from issue to issue) but I can\'t stand Michael Moore since Fahrenheit 9/11. He is nothing but The Left\'s Rush Limbaugh. Limbaugh, who was very vocal on drug issues, was exposed as being addicted to oxy...I can\'t wait till it\'s exposed that Michael Moore is the CEO of Starbucks or something like that and all the people who blindly follow Moore have to suck it up and admit their god is flawed. It\'s really too bad because I liked Bowling for Columbine, but now I\'ll never be able to take another Moore movie seriously (supposing I waste another two hours of my life on a Moore film).

As for the military bashing. Saying that they have no respect for the citizens of Iraq is an incredibly broad generalization. I\'m sure some absolutely hate them, but that doesn\'t mean all do. They are put into a situation where they\'re shot at on a daily basis and have to see many of their fellow soldiers killed or wounded, I\'m sure there is some hostility especially since the enemy has no uniforms and can hide under their very nose. But the same goes to other side, as not many people think about the enemies point of view, here\'s an occupying force that has come to their homeland, without asking, and has set up shop and set up the type of government the occupying force prefers. How would you feel? I\'m not trying to villify or glorify either side, I have an enormous amount of respect for the soldiers in the war despite the fact that I strongly disagree with the war. I think they are putting their lives on the line for us, and it\'s our duty to try not to fuck them over and put them in situations like the one they\'re in now.

 

The mainstream media is not going to premote this movie, and hell, moore\'s film was only in 500 theatres, that only 10 per state. I dont think the film is going to swing anyones opinion, seeing is how only the hard core left say micheal moore\'s film, and there is nothing you can do to swing the extreme of eather side\'s opinion.

I wouldnt compare Limbaugh to Moore, although they are similar in some respects. I have listened to rush at work before, i think he makes some valid points, but he is an asshole. He stresses the side of the story to further his cause, while moore has what, 50+ proven lies in a 90 minute film. I dont think Rush outright lies that much, he just picks parts of different stories and leaves other parts out, otherwise known as taking things out of context, like Moore (that is how they are similar). I thought it was funny when he got busted for being a pill head. I only really listen to get the right wing side of a story that i hear, on lets say, hardball or some show like that, with assholes like chris matthews. I would say chris matthews is more like the lefts rush limbaugh. I also watch shows like that to get their take on something i might have heard limbaugh say. Im really like Hannity and Combs on foxnews, a rep and a dem debating, it is pretty fair and balanced, considering you get to hear both sides of the story. As far as radio, the only one i could give a crap about is Neal Boortz, the guy who introduced me to the Libertarian Ideaolgy. He is also from the A-town, so he does apperences and such around town.

Neway, your right, you cant compare the 2, because those men were men, never complained, never came back and blasted fellow troops like yourself and kerry.

You claim to be ex milatery, you let people boss you around, so i guess your calling yourself a moron.

\"anyone who would sign up to let another person order you around and even put you in harm\'s way is a moron.\"
\"I was in the military. I know the mentality of those morons.\"