Discussion in 'Pandora's Box' started by Digu Miki, May 22, 2013.

  1. So a few days ago me and a friend were having a conversation about how some people are racist because they don't like how the white man is in charge. My view on the subject was, yes while white people have been historically assholes it shouldn't justify hate towards the whole group of people. Then my friend (who is white) says "Oh yeah, I hate how people think all white people are pushy and entitled. Like I think it's much worse to be the person blamed for owning slaves then actually being one." and that is where our convo stopped because I told her we should change the subject to avoid a heated debate..
    This brought me to thinking that some people are so ignorant to the privilege they have. The legal system is set up to oppress certain groups of people for being a certain way (looking too black or suspicious, being too poor to pay bills) but no one can get arrested for being too white, rich and privileged. Even when Caucasians are arrested or slapped with some jail time, they always feel that he is in some way not wrong for what he did. When the batman shooting thing happened, on the news, they went on about how stress from school could have made him crack, and that despite his crime he was a straight-A student destined for great things and all this shit that had nothing to do with what he did. When those boys were arrested for raping that girl, the media dared to say that she ruined their lives and that what they endured was worse than the person who was actually raped..
    There are clear groups in society that get special treatment and privileges that other's don't get. And the fact that many people are so oblivious to how there is a crystal-clear-to-see patriarchy/social hierarchy is beyond me. Seriously, I have had people call me a crazy feminazi because I've pointed out easy to understand ways that society discourages anything feminine or fits a western beauty standard or I've been called racist because I honestly think that our government is unbalanced in how it treats certain groups. Why can't people wake up and see that America is full of horse shit? Although you can't expect the majority ruling to realize they are the ones ruining America.. Anyway! This is what people would call a radical view on things. I don't think the way I feel is radical, I feel it is the cold hard truth and you can't tell me otherwise, in fact my views would match up with maybe someone who calls themselves an intersectionalist or an intersectional feminist. If you don't know what that means then look it up and get back here and tell me how you feel about it.
    Do you think that there are clear oppressed groups and something must be done?

  2. I love this post. I agree with you 100%.
    "Although you can't expect the majority ruling to realize they are the ones ruining America.. Anyway! "
    They benefit from everything you listed so why would they change it? they wont they want people to be oppressed, poor, and without resources. Thats capitalism for you.

    The only time it changes is when a race as a whole stand together like in the 60's and fight for change. This doesn't really happen in the present day too much because we don't have unity anymore so unfortunately I think its going to stay like this :(

    And yes it very unfair on how a certain group gets all kind of privileges. Too many to even list.
  3. I agree with you but you miss the main point. It isnt white people doing this it is the richest of the rich turning us middle and lower class people against eachother so we dont recognize that we are controlled by corrupt power hungry warmongers. I could point out some things that are in the system that are racist against whites not just blacks. We have legal requirements to hire a center percent black people for jobs even if they are under qualified or there is a better candidate available, which is racist against non minorities. It works  both ways to infuriate each side and turn them on eachother and distract us from the big picture. 
  4. Oh I believe me I didn't miss it. I just used race as an example. I knew I should of addressed the middle class issue but oh well. I agree that the rich toy with us the most but who are the rich and the people in power? lol . Yes the whole system is fucked. A job should always goto the top candidate hands down theres no question about that just like a university should accept the top candidate and not just a minority to feel quota, i understand. this whole system is fucked up but how do we change it?
  5. The only way to change is revolution. It would take the whole middle class cutting work for just a few days until our demands are met. I feel a good start would be to end the federal reserve and also be to call for the resignation of all members of the federal government and then local and eliminate all the laws and reduce it to common sense. As in instead of saying stealing, fraud, scams reduce it to theft because obviously those are all forms of theft. 
  6. First of all, historically, all types of people have been assholes. I'm not sure I entirely understand her response to that part, but I think that it is just as wrong for anyone to blame white people today for their ancestors owning slaves as it is for black people today to act a certain way because their ancestors were slaves. Too often do people forget that it was Africans who sold other Africans into slavery in the first place, an example of black people being assholes historically.
    I think that female sexuality is both repressed and exploited simultaneously. Racial profiling is also quite obvious especially in places like NYC where there are quotas demanding it, but profiling in general is a problem, be it harassing a black teen on the street, favoring a woman in a custody battle, or the IRS scrutinizing conservatives. Juries profiling is also taken advantage of as seen by lawyers making sure their clients look a cetain way from them telling thugs to wear suits and Jodi Arias going from blonde to brunette and donning glasses.
    In fact, there are so many oppressed groups, I think it's fair to say all people are oppressed. And who's the oppressor? These groups
    you think are more blatantly oppressed appear that way because of affirmative action by the government. Yes, the government, which has failed in everything it has undertaken, social problems being no exception. Indeed something must be done, but not more affirmative action giving privileges to certain groups and throwing the playing field further off balance. 
    We the oppessed people must limit our government's responsibility's to the only one it should have: protecting our individual rights. However the first step would be getting the government to admit it was wrong to overstep it's only responsibility, which as you said is not to be expected. Perhaps first we must realize the people made a mistake by asking the government to handle so many of their problems. So ask not what your country can do for you, but why the hell would you want it to?
  7. Great points but how do you get people to stand behind you in this revolution? There's no way to get rid of the federap reserve those rich people will commit genocide before they let us even protest anything that has to do with federal reserve. How can we take down laws that a takes a long process of appeals and back in forth. People want things handed to them they dont want to fight for a cause we would rather do something we enjoy myself included. Our nation is content with were we are.
  8. Lots of ignorant white people in america. Just follow politics and thats easy to see.
    Not every white person is an asshole, but theres alot of them.
    You're not radical you're just being real.
  9. The main obstacle impeding progress is that privileged groups (i.e., white, heterosexual, and male) deny that they are, indeed, privileged. And, upon being confronted with the consequences of the privilege, revert to reactionary hostility in the claim that, somehow, they are the ones being oppressed.
  10. People do want things handed to them, which is the first hurdle we must jump. If we don't wean them from the government teat the system will run out of money to steal and borrow for the entitlements they clamor for and inevitably collapse. However that may be just what we need to get a fresh start.
    I'd say all all those people who voted for Obama just because he's black are pretty ignorant too. How about there's a lot of ignorant people in general? Just following politics it's easy to see. Using labels like that to divide people you're just perpetuating ignorance.
  11. @[member="EddieTheHead"] 100% agree with you. However, when I say white people have historically been assholes, I mean white America that has some deeply rooted eurocentric mentalities. I'm talking about how historically in America, it is very obvious that the caucasian race is favored in every way. Beauty standards, social standings, economic really any aspect I can think of there will always be a situation where because of a person's skin color (happens to be white) they are given the better treatment. And while yes slavery was no new concept to the world and some black people hold onto just whites owning blacks, it's the result of a culture built around these ideals that aren't relevant to reality at all, that is why they hold onto it. It's not so much the slavery thing, it's the slavery thing plus okay you aren't slaves anymore but you can't do anything to participate plus okay you can participate but you gotta do this and this and this to prove you are indeed a real human being. It's the America that blacks now have to still fight and prove themselves in that they blame whites for. And while I myself see that I can't blame random people for making the laws and rules we go by, I can be angry for them ignoring the facts and not doing a thing about it.
    And the female sexual repression and profiling thing go hand in hand and people don't even know it. the manifestation of both of these components is slut shaming actually, but you'de be surprised at how many people deny the existence of such a practice simply because "it's the american way." Slut Shaming is very real and is indeed another tool used in a patriarchy to oppress feminine sexuality. 
    These things and more is why I think our government needs to be overturned  plain as that. They are indeed aware of the country they've created. To think this is a result of "a bunch of misunderstandings and disagreement in lifestyles" is a bunch of bullshit. It takes a lot of power and money and time to create a society that has such hypocritical standings. When people say it is the people's fault that America is like this, I both agree and disagree. Yes a lot of people think voting is useless because the gov. doesn't actually listen (which is 500% true), but if they really want to be heard, they have got to be active. Simply voting and being at town meetings isn't enough, affirmative action certainly won't solve anything. Sorry to be cliche but we really do need a revolution..
  12. system is meant to fuck us all and let a few lottery winners get ahead. yes race plays a role in the system, but the system wants to buttfuck you regardless of your race 
  13. @[member="Digu Miki"]
    It's true that the system favors certain people all the time, but it has more to do with class than race. It would certainly favor someone like Al Sharpton over some white guy selling meth. Historically white people make up more of that upper class so they see more of these privileges. However every group has certain privileges  such as welfare and other "free" stuff that other people pay for, including people not much better off. It has been said that being a single mom in America is like winning the lotto. 
    The main reason many lower class groups are kept down is because of what the masses, not just white people, have agreed to let the government be responsible for. Primarily, education. People have trusted the government to educate their children and it has failed them, especially in urban areas. Education simply isn't a need, at least it certainly isn't so necessary that it should be left to the government.
    And after the system has failed them, where are they to find employment? Minimum wage laws, much like a large part of marijuana prohibition being to prevent misceganation, were conceived out of historical racism. How are the uneducated to work for lower wages and learn the skills to move up? Just like welfare these policies made to help the less fortunate only hurt them.
    Slut shaming is a terrible double standard which epitomizes female sexual repression. There's nothing wrong with casual sex between two people who want to have it, regardless of their gender. The worst part is when a woman's sexual history or what she was wearing is brought up in court. Yes, let's blame the raped woman for being so tempting and not the rapist for lacking self-control and respect for another person's rights.
    We do need a revolution but one that  brings about enlightenment. Voting doesn't change anything because whatever little progress we manage to make is overshadowed by people demanding more things the government has no business providing but is all too eager to in order to become larger and get more votes. We need Supreme Court justices who actually understand the constitution so we can begin downsizing the law books by nullifying our many unconstitutional laws. But we would need a president who respects the constitution and its establishment of a limited government to appoint such justices.
    However as we can see with Obama, just being a constitutional lawyer isn't enough. We need people against the system to get into it, but such fringe candidates would never get the votes they need from statists. And the last president to speak against the Fed was Kennedy. We need people to to realize that while we need society, we do not need the state.
  14. @[member="EddieTheHead"] I think me and you are one the same page with very small differences in opinion, but I understand what you are saying.
    However, when people tell me that while race is a huge but not determining factor, I still feel that is them denying that things can be that bad. Not saying that to anyone specifically, just a relevant thought. The only reason I feel that our government will never be the people to actually help us in a new system is because they are preventing new change or anything too radical or sudden. Third party candidates are little known and covered by media for a reason, and there was even an instance where a third party candidate was blocked from entering his own presidential debate because they just didn't want him there. This is why I have little to no faith in the government helping solve these problems, we have giving them enough control to the point where it doesn't matter if we like it or not.
    Overall I feel a revolution is now up to the oppressed to start, no more going to big brother to fight our battles.
  15. There's certainly no patriarchy in the west, but I get what you're saying about government and how we're given more the illusion of choice than any real choice or power.
  16. Op you seem like you think your always right, therefore any argument is irrelevant.
  17. Slavery wasn't cool but it's not cool to hold it against white people. That was a century ago
  18. Yess. I love you. Thank you for saying this much better than I ever could.
  19. What if someone told you all your hard work has just been "privilege"? I haven't been handed shit. I'm not claiming to be oppressed either, but I work for mine.
  20. i find that black people tend to forget that they were not the first race to be oppressed... you think black people have it hard? try being jewish in the world.

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