Indoor gardening without bottled nutrients

Discussion in 'Growing Marijuana Indoors' started by jerry111165, Apr 15, 2012.

  1. Here's an Irie mix for you guys.

    2 parts Premier Sphagnum peat moss ($10 at home depot)
    1 part EWC (Homeade)
    1 part compost (super cheap from a local compost organization $2.50 per bag)
    .5 part rabbit/cow manure mix (Free collected from the ass of a rabbit)
    2 parts rice hulls
    2 parts lava rock
    (These last two are airation amendments that are replacements for perlite. Rice hulls are about $1 per pound at your local home beer brewing store and the lava rock can be bought at home depot. Yes its the red coarse stuff.

    then per c.f. of soil (a cubic foot is about 7 gallons)

    1/2 cup kelp (I buy $50 b ags at the local feed and grain store $45)
    1/2 cup crab (this I had to buy from the hydro store. Neptunes harvest $36)
    1/2 cup neem cake (Neemresource.com $10)
    1/4 cup Dr. Earth tomato and veg (local nursery $13)
    1/4 cup Espoma plant tone (local nursery $15)
    2 cups azomite (hydro store $44)
    1 cup Espoma soft rock phosphate (Hydro store $15)
    1 cup D.lime (Ace hardware store $10)

    This mix is a water only mix, but if you like to play, you can add botanical teas and compost teas to boost things a bit.
    All together about $200 to get my soil mix together. However, when I go to make another mix, the only thing I have to buy is Peat moss, rice hulls, and lava rock (about $30) The rest of the ammendments come in large bags and I wont run out of them for years. and Us organic folks reuse our soil, because by the second grow the soil life in your mix is thriving and the nutrients are broken down better. Your plants will actually do better in a used soil than a fresh one for this reason.
     
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  2. I like the idea of a water only mix. Sounds expensive to start though. O.O
     
  3. Hi gardeners. As promised, here is a list of items that I recently (approximately a month ago) put into a new batch of soil. For you newer organic gardeners, please note that not all of these items are neccessary for a fine, high quality garden - not by any means. I've always been the guy that likes to go overboard, though, and from everything that I've learned in the last couple of years its that DIVERSITY means everything in an organic garden.

    We add all of our "nutrients", for lack of a better word, directly to our soil mixes. By being very diverse, and adding a little bit of everything I know that my ass is covered any time my gals want a specific compound, nutrient, micronutrient, element - etc. By having this wide array of these things in my soil mix, there is no doubt whatsoever that all I need to do, from the day that the clone gets transplanted until the day of harvest all I need to do is to keep my soil moist.

    Can you believe that you havent been doing this all along? I couldnt. I grew using chemical salt based nutrients from all of the different hydro manufacturers for over twenty years before I discovered this. Thats why its so important to me to get the word out that there is a ridiculously easy and effective way to garden without the need or use of harsh chemical fertilizers.

    So, here is the list of items recently used in my soil mix. Ive been doing fantastic without some of these items in the past, to me I'm only gaining ground by adding a few different ones. I want to be able to continue using the same soil in the same pots for years to come using the No-Till method, and with a soil as rich as this is, I have no doubt that it'll work just fine.

    1. Pro-Mix - this is the main basse - the sphagnum peat component.
    2. Bagged "Coast of Maine" lobster, salmon, blueberry and aspen bark compost -
    Compost is a very important part of a good organic garden due to its soil life. Its
    the life thats in our soils that make a true organic garden successful. Try and fine a
    good quality compost. Some folks only use worm castings to add thier soil life, but I
    prefer to use both compost and EWC's.
    3. Worm castings, both from the "Coast of Maine" products line, and also
    vermicompost from my own worm bins. This is a very important component - we get
    alot of our soil life from worm castings. Please try and source good quality castings.
    Worm castings are only as good as the food they are fed, and some of the larger
    worm castings producers dont feed thier worms very well. Many of us have worm bins
    and produce our own - its very easy, but thats for another topic. Sometimes Craigslist
    has some decent ones, or depending on where you live, there are some good ones
    available. The bottom line is to try and source the best quality you can!
    4. Rock Phosphate - a good source of Phosphorus, Calcium and other trace minerals.
    5. Oyster Shell - adds calcium among other things and helps to balance soil pH.
    6. Composted Chicken Manure - adds nitrogen phosphorus and potassium, adds organic
    matter and soil life bacteria.
    7. Alfalfa Meal - a decent source of nitrogen and a small percentage of phosphorous and potassium. The major benefit of AM is its affect on the soil life. Alfalfa meal contains special microbes that activate the soil's microorganisms that in turn help convert nutrients into soluble forms. Alfalfa meal makes a kick-ass tea that your plants are really going to enjoy.
    8. Azomite- A to Z minerals. From thier website - "Azomite: This natural rock dust is an aluminum silicate clay mixed with many minerals. It began as an ancient marine deposit and was brought to the surface by volcanic action. It has been in use over 50 years as a source of available potash (2.5%) and over 50 trace minerals, including Calcium (2%), Sodium (1%), Iron (0.5%), and Magnesium (0.5%)."
    9. Planters II mineral rock dust - almost the same as above - again, just a little diversity.
    10. Fish Meal - high in nitrogen and phosphorus, and also contains important trace elements making it a broad-based organic fertilizer.
    11. Bone Char - boosts phosphorous and calcium levels.
    12. Bone Meal - phosphorous & nitrogen
    13. Kelp Meal - magical! This is a "Must Have"!
    Kelp meal, on average, supplies around 60 minerals, 21 amino acids and 12 vitamins and growth regulators - in other words, it helps keep internodal spacing tight and compact! Kelp also provides sources of nitrogen and potassium, micro-nutrients, carbohydrates and essential plant hormones.
    14. Epsoma Tomato Tone - All-in-one organic fertilizer.
    Hydrolyzed Feather Meal, Pasteurized
    Poultry Manure, Cocoa Meal, Bone Meal, Alfalfa Meal,​
    Greensand, Humates, Sulfate of Potash, and Gypsum
    15. Soy Bean Meal - Derived from soybeans and used in a pellet form, soybean meal is prized for its high nitrogen (7 percent) content and as a source of phosphorous (2 percent). Like alfalfa meal, it is particularly beneficial to nitrogen-loving plants
    16. Mustard Seed Meal - Mustard Meal suppresses soil diseases and enriches your soil by releasing nitrogen to your plants over the course of the season.
    17. 2 other organic fertilizer mixes from the organic growers supply - same idea as the "Epsoma Tomato-Tone". Adding diversity.
    18. Dolomite Lime - I had a little left over. Helps balance pH. I normally dont even bother, but I had some so I threw it in.
    19. Neem Meal - Valuable! Is now in my "Must-Have" category. Controls insects like nothing else and adds many valuable elements and compounds. Neem is in our "Accumulator" plant category. Another discussion must be had on Accumulator plants. Neem meal quality means everything. I buy, on advice from LD and many others, my neem meal from neemresources dot com.
    20. Karanja Meal - Neem Meal is farmed. Karanja is VERY similar, but is wild harvested.
    21. Gypsum - soil conditioning and pH balance.
    22. Greensand - takes a long time to break down, but thats ok as I do the long term No-Till method anyhow. Greensand is an organic fertilizer that contains the deposits of minerals that were once part of the ocean floor. Also called "glauconite," greensand has a bluish-green color. The NPK ratio for greensand is approximately 0-0-3. It is a good organic source of potash (important for overall plant health and disease resistance)
    23. Bat Guano - Some folks like using this, and some dont. Normally bat guano is harvested from caves and is in a fossilized state, which means that it takes quite a long time to break down. I happened to have some left over from quite awhile ago so it went into this mix.

    Alot of organics in this mix! Again, please, dont let this very lengthy list scare you off. A good, very solid organic soil mix does not need to contain all of these items! If I needed to make myself a very basic and yet effective organic soil with limited resources or funds I would probably go with -

    1. Pro-Mix or Sunshine Sphagnum Peat based mix
    2. Bagged compost
    3. Earthworm castings
    4. Epsome or similar all-in-one organic fertilizer
    5. Kelp Meal
    6. Alfalfa Meal
    7. Neem Meal
    8. Azomite or Gaia Green rock/mineral dust

    That would do it. Use 2/3 peat base, 1/3 compost and earthworm castings. To that add around 3 cups per cubic foot of your mix of the fertilizer, kelp and seed meals. Add a couple of cups of ruck dust on top of that as well. Moisten thoroughly and allow to sit while damp/wet for 3-4 weeks. Thats it - you have yourself a very fine organic growing medium!

    We will continue to get into this more in-depth in future posts. We still have worm farming, compost teas, botanical teas and all other kinds of fun stuff to discuss! :)

    jerry.
     
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  4. You'll pay that same amount in chemical nutrients to do a hydro grow. The difference is that you'll continue paying for nutrients every grow with hydro. With organics, these 50 lb bags of ammendments will last you years. So your money will stretch a lot farther. You also have to add in the hydro equipment costs. The table, the hydro rocks, the drip emitters, the water pumps, ect. With organics, you need a watering can and a 5 gallon bucket. Really to get started with either method the cost is about the same, but how far will that $200 take you.
     
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  5. Mashiro - it isnt.

    Pro-Mix - around $30.00 for the big bale, which is 3.8 CF. You can buy this right at Home Depot.
    Kelp Meal - around a buck a pound at Farm & Feed stores
    Compost - I pay around $7.00 a bag at Farm & Feed stores
    EWC's - approximately 15 pounds for $20.00? Prices vary according to where you buy and the quality of the castings.
    Epsoma or similar - $13.00 for 20 pounds at Farm & Feed stores
    Alfalfa Meal - $15.00 for 50 pounds at Farm & Feed stores
    Neem Meal/Cake - go here - Neem Oil, Leaf, Bark Powder, Karanja Oil & Other Products around $10.00 for 5 pounds (plus shipping)

    Now look at the price of bottled chemical nutrients and the medium you'd be buying anyhow. Gardening organically is much, much less expensive than any other method!

    Now look at it in this light - I am on my 5th batch of plants in the very same soil mix as the first batch - using it again, and again, and again!

    Still expensive?

    jerry.
     
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  6. Indoor organic's is where it is at for a low cost and stealth system. I enjoy not having to worry about what to do with the old dirt, it goes from the planter to the bin and remixed ready for the next round. Another nice thing is you only need to pick up a few amendments for your garden as time goes buy. Organic's is where it's at!!!
     
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  7. [quote name='"jerry111165"']

    Mashiro - it isnt.

    Pro-Mix - around $30.00 for the big bale, which is 3.8 CF. You can buy this right at Home Depot.
    Kelp Meal - around a buck a pound at Farm & Feed stores
    Compost - I pay around $7.00 a bag at Farm & Feed stores
    EWC's - approximately 15 pounds for $20.00? Prices vary according to where you buy and the quality of the castings.
    Epsoma or similar - $13.00 for 20 pounds at Farm & Feed stores
    Alfalfa Meal - $15.00 for 50 pounds at Farm & Feed stores
    Neem Meal/Cake - go here - Neem Oil, Leaf, Bark Powder, Karanja Oil & Other Products around $10.00 for 5 pounds (plus shipping)

    Now look at the price of bottled chemical nutrients and the medium you'd be buying anyhow. Gardening organically is much, much less expensive than any other method!

    Now look at it in this light - I am on my 5th batch of plants in the very same soil mix as the first batch - using it again, and again, and again!

    Still expensive?

    jerry.[/quote]

    Wow.
    Wow.
    Wow.

    This is like the holy grail for me.
    I'm starting to really love GC, every time I come here (everyday now, with the iPhone app) I learn something really great.

    I can't even express how much I am digging this post (no pun intended). I'm currently growing in FFOF soil and an organic line of nutes but I see no reason not to just start up your organic mix tonight.

    At the moment I'm just posting to say thanks! I'll probably be on later, asking all the questions I can (most of which you've answered already).

    Also, thanks for putting this in the indoor growing section. I'll admit I don't stray into the organic section often, mainly out of fear of difficulty but you've clearly expunged that.
     
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  8. #28 Mashiro, Apr 16, 2012
    Last edited by a moderator: Apr 16, 2012

    I see where you're going with this. If my local F&F Store doesn't have it, I'll have to order it online. And you know how shipping adds up.
     
  9. Awesome thread Jerry, definetly subbed.
     
  10. Mashiro,
    Most farm stores can order things if they dont normally carry them. This will save you the shipping. Same with the big box stores (lowes, home depot). Look online, order it from lowes, pick it up from lowes. Saves you the shipping. Also, organics is great because there is, most of the time, a substitute for what your looking for. For example, if you cant find azomite or glacial rock dust, try granite dust. this can almost always be found locally. Search and get creative.
     
  11. zereshk,

    Read the stickies in the organic section. Everything you ever needed to know is there. Then ask questions. There are a lot of very inteligent people there that are really willing to help. They dont seem to like to answer the same questions over and over though so read the stickies.
     


  12. Some of the fun results of Organic gardening.

    Just keep it moist. Make an occassional tea. No pH, no PPM, no TDS, no Flushing. No chemical flavor. Pure and sweet natural organic goodness.

    Take a peek here...1 plant, 9.5 oz.
    http://forum.grasscity.com/organic-grow-journals/946124-jerrys-organic-obsession-3.html#post12923395

    jerry.
     
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  13. My first true organic grow was grown in a soil with nothing more than:

    Peat
    Perlite
    Compost
    Dry Organic Fertilizer (Age Old Organic - In Full Bloom)
    Alfalfa meal

    Results: Cheese and Purple Urkle

    It shouldn't take more than about $25 bucks to get enough stuff to start down the path to organics :)
     
  14. [quote name='"Mashiro"']Hey, Jerry.

    My local store carries this stuff.

    1.5 cf. Vigoro Organic Potting Soil-BG1.5CFPMV at The Home Depot

    I've never heard of it, could I use it?[/quote]

    Never heard of it, can you list what's inside of it?

    If you go to the manufacturers website you should be able to get the amounts of each amendment.

    Wouldn't want to pay for lime and cheap pray moss would we?

    Can you find ProMix at your Home Depot? That stuff is the shit. And its $2.35 a cf
     
  15. I just got off the phone with Home Depot and they said they don't have access to ProMix.
     
  16. Home depot has Lakeland.

    Pure Canadian sphagnum peat moss, is what you want.
     
  17. Make your own 'promix' at home depot by buying some of the Premier or Alaska Canadian Spaghnum peat moss and perlite and/or lava rocks/pumice and mix it up yourself with the other amendments
     
  18. Just peat moss? No perlite?
     

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