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Independence 1776. Independence 201x?

Discussion in 'Politics' started by hoodie, Jul 4, 2009.

  1. A little long, but a good read, imo. Enjoy!

  2. do you really think that declaring independence again and going through all that is a good idea? watch this country get torn apart worse then it is now.
  3. Who's declaring independence? Hawaii? Is the south rising again?

    Shit I would go to Hawaii and help them fight. But they'd probably just restore the monarchy. Fuck that. :p

  4. This country should be torn apart.

    Open up the doors for secession, DC has become too powerful and we don't all agree on this shit.
  5. Thank god people like you are in the minority. You hate the government and you think the country should be torn apart? Do you want, this country to be separated with state against state? Are regions like the west coast, the south and the upper east coast/rustbelt better off as there own separate unions? I don't understand this. Why would you want America to be torn apart instead of trying to work towards solving its problems in a civil way?
  6. I agree.

    People bitch too much but never come to a coherent way of solving problems.

    What will starting over at this point in time do? Do people really believe that going into chaos and starting some new form of government is really that easy to come by?

    Do they not realize that governments outside of this nation went through the same trials and tribulations? Even some "governments" nowadays outside of the US don't function because people in the country would rather rebel than try to come to a sensible conclusion.
  7. Right now would be a terrible time for any kind of revolution or revolt. Think of everything that would be lost. The schools system would fail even worse then it is now. Our military would be ripped apart, soldiers would be dedicated to there region. Everything we have been working for in science in recent years, stem cells, the planned trip back to the moon, ect. The nations resources would be depleted.

    This forum is filled with so much hate mongering. We get it you hate Obama. Nothing is going to change your mind, and nothing is going to change the liberal's minds. It's like all of you are seriously hoping for America to fail. What would happen if North Korea pulls some shit? What if some country or group in the middle east takes advantage of a unstable America?
  8. To me what doesn't make sense is why people are expecting so much from Obama in such a short time frame.

    For a small company or even worse, a big established corporation, just trying to make fixes for internal problems in that scope could take years.

    We have a person here trying to fix a national-scale problem in a matter of months? How naive are people in this place?

    To me, it's better that he's trying different things instead of trying to same old shit that doesn't work anymore. Then again, Bush did win /twice/... shows what kind of people this country has...

  9. You are awful proud of being one among the meek, I see you studied hard in bible school? Or public school? Either one will have created this horrible collectivist mindset in you.

    Yes, I hate the US government. They are too big and consistently fail at everything they attempt to do. We need a major overhaul and Obama can't do it. The government has too much power and corruption and it needs to be cleansed.

    The best way to do this is break it up, like any exploitative monopoly. Give the powers back to the states, retain the US as only a military alliance and protection of free trade between sovereign states. NO Federal laws should impede on the unwilling constituents of individual states.

    [[What I have just described is actually our official form of Republican government as per the US Constitution. If we wanted to become this totalitarian empire we are today we should have amended the Constitution, as was intended.]]

    Why do we need to be bound together with restrictive one-size fits all Federal policy? We are stunting growth and preserving the power elite all across the nation.

    Our states are more than capable of taking care of themselves:


    The EU is a confederacy, by the way, do they disgust you as well?

    I have a coherent way of solving problems. See above and respond.
  10. That just doesn't work. You're referring to a body of countries that willingly decided to be separated areas.

    America doesn't function that way. The reason why this place is referred to as a "nation" is because we all have a unified view of government.

    Why on earth would you want to revert to having the states function as their own separate countries?

    Read a bit of history and you'll see why that method /failed/.

    It's easy to want chaos and "start" off fresh when things are shitty, but in reality, you can't just do that when you're already in so far in the process.

    The US doesn't function on it's own. Whatever happens here affects us in a global scale, meaning places like Europe and all those countries you listed there will be affected. If this place were to crumble now, you'll fuck the whole world over.
  11. What kind of education did you have growing up? What college did you attend? It's like you think everyone in America is brainwashed except you.

  12. I have read history, so I'd prefer if you could be more specific.

    How did Federalism fail? Because the government usurped the power from the states? That is not a legitimate excuse for favoring centralized government: "Because it won".

    The south should have seceded and we would be in a lot better place today. Slavery would have ended in the south as it did everywhere else in the world; peacefully. We would not have had to spend billions on a war and lose hundreds of thousands of lives only to preserve the interests of a few men in the North East. (In case you didn't know, the war was fought over economic control).

    We are facing a shitstorm of a situation in America, if you are not aware. We might be forced into complete bankruptcy and have to renege on our obligations, forcing our credit rating below A, sending us into hyperinflation and becoming the first undeveloped nation in modern history.

    I think the coming depression will be a great time to remodel our nation and disperse the power from the center. At the very least the 10th amendment should be respected.
  13. I had a public education, where I was brainwashed, then I went to CU and got an economics and poli-sci degree, and realized I was brainwashed... I think delving into psychonautics might have contributed as well.

    Now my life will be spent defending myself from the proverbial zombie hoard, and attempting to spread my influence on internet weed forums.

  14. To me, the first nation to go through hyperinflation and become very undeveloped in "modern history" is Germany. That all happened in the mids 1900s and they seem to be pulling along fine nowadays.

    Everything you say for our economy is correct, but the problem is that there hasn't been sufficient time to address the issue.

    Again, do you feel that a few months is sufficient to address the economic issue occuring in the US? That's what doesn't make any sense to me.
  15. Even more of a reason to end this evil empire

    If you haven't noticed, by following our current path of "unified government" we are crumbling at an alarming speed.

    Why exactly are you against secession? Doesn't seem like too bad of an idea to me, the US is way too bloated anyways.
  16. #16 aaronman, Jul 6, 2009
    Last edited by a moderator: Jul 6, 2009
    What happened to Germany pales in comparison to the risk America faces. What created the inflation in Germany is what led to Nazism, so I wouldn't say they got along fine.

    No, a few months is certainly not enough, but since Obama is using the same failed tactics of every other Keynesian President we've had, prescribing more of the credit and debt that got us into this mess, I do not have any faith in the guy.

    Instead of reducing the burdens on our economy so we can actually produce something and start another boom he has been focusing on maintaining the size of government and redistributing wealth from the already suffering businesses.

    I know liberals have no sympathy for the 'rich', but the rich in America have a lot of debt that depends on their current stream of income. Now that their income is dropping they will not be able to keep up with their debt, which means more defaults, which means more bank failures... which means. Fuck.

  17. What are you talking about?

    Germany's economy in the early 1900s before they underwent hyperinflation was one of the largest economies in the world, if anything surpassed the British economy (which was the largest in the world at the time). To say that theirs lacked in comparison when they were one of the largest economies in the world at that time is ignorant. Not only that, I didn't say that they were "fine" back then, I meant /today/.

    Restructuring takes time. You claim a few months certainly isn't enough to fix this economy, yet you bash Obama for using "old techniques." How do you know that his techniques aren't working if you haven't given it the time to manifest itself? Not everything he's doing is the same (for sure not the same tactics used by the past presidents).
  18. Why dont you go ask the Federal reserve will all the obama bailout money went? It went to make the rich richer and the poor even more poor.

  19. /major facepalm
  20. #20 fourty47, Jul 6, 2009
    Last edited by a moderator: Jul 6, 2009

    Explain where in my statement I said something incorrect or even biased.

    This person stated that what Germany went through lacks in comparison to what America is going through when Germany was one of the largest economic powers during the early 1900s before they had to undergo Nazism (because of their shitty economy).

    We don't even have to go through fascism here, yet you're making it seem like what I'm saying is incorrect, yet have no ideas to back it up?

    Explain to me, as I've asked everyone, how on earth can you fix a fucking trillion dollar deficit in a matter of months. HOW do you plan on fixing it without borrowing money? Really now. Does anyone here even know anything about investing?

    All I see is a bunch of naive ass remarks. This guy comes from "CU" with a poli sci degree yet doesn't even know about one of the only countries to ever go through a hyperinflation.

    I'm sorry, but I only have a math degree from UC Berkeley. I guess I'm not qualified to speak of such issues.

    edit: oh yeah, and this person also claims that we're going through hyperinflation (u gotta be fucking kidding me)

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