LMFAO! Man, if u notillers dont like urine, i bet "humanure" terrifies you. Point fun all you want, but these are ancient ancient practices.... from a time when people werent polluting soil mind u.... let that sink in lovin u (=
Milk and pee. Can you say ants? And before you try to claim that organic amendments attract ants, Don't. I store my dry stuff in an outdoor shed with ant hills very close, but the bastards don't touch it. Go downstairs to the utility bathroom( I don't clean it very well or use it often) and you'll ALWAYS see an ant trying to scavenge a bit of nutrition from dried piss. Don't know about you but I don't want an ant magnet in my grow, those bastards are horrible once they get a foot hold in your containers. The milk thing makes sense though. The only thing is that it won't be able to provide enough nutrition by itself to produce a decent haul, your still gonna need a decent mix to provide EVERYTHING that milk doesn't contain. Not really sure what the nute values would be for milk though.
I never thought about ants being attracted to urine. Thats impressive that those ants didnt bother your plants! I get ants sometimes, and ive never tried urine. But in terms of plant nutrition/soil, i do think urine could work just fine. But thats based on my personal understanding of the soil food web, not my personal experience. I do appreciate the ethics of a TRUELY closed loop system and support anyone willing to give it a chance, be it urine or humanure or whatever. Not for me at this time, maybe someday tho. Still, i feel u, and i think i pretty much agree with you, except for the fact that i think its slightly more reasonable to use. In any case, thank you for debating respectively! Mucho appreciated lovin u (=
Interesting .... I'm all hydro for the last 14 years but still appreciate my dirt beginnings, so I'll throw out a couple of comments. Molasses will mos'def' help your dirt grows. It has some nutritional value, with some nitrogen and lots of potassium. But its primary value is it's rich in micronutrients, and the carbs help greatly in the establishment of beneficial bacteria. Either the syrupy cooking style, or dried molasses available at livestock / feed / dry goods stores. When building your dirt mix I prefer the dried variety; do it once & forget it. If you're using coco or organic pre-mixes, or if you already started your grow & didn't include it in your mix, the liquid works great. Every 2nd or 3rd watering should be with a diluted molasses / water solution. Calcium in milk? Makes sense, but I never tried it. However I DO know that lack of calcium will cause all kinds of general plant health problems, including stunted root development and holy shit in trying to get pH balanced (calcium is a natural buffer of pH & helps stabilize pH). Organic growers like to chuckle & say don't worry about this, but IMHO you DO need to worry if you DON'T have the right ingredients in your dirt formula. And now the dreaded MicacleGro topic. I looked at this product last winter for a new grower, and Jabawakii's right. If you read the MSDS, there are no concerns. Well, don't get it in your eyes or breathe it. But it's dirt, whaddaya expect? And if you review the product label, it really does not have anything evil in it. Peat moss, coco, yucca, and what little amount of nutrients it has (N-P-K = 0.18 - 0.10 - 0.12) is derived from slow release organic-friendly ingredients like blood meal, chicken lips & assholes (AKA "poultry litter"). I'm not making the argument that this is the best stuff you can find. But I'm willing to give credit where it's due. Scotts / MiracleGro did a huge step forward when they came out with this product. I'd still want to mix my own if I ever decided to bring dirt back into my grow room, but there's a lot worse mixes on the market than this stuff.
Oh yeah, forgot to mention. To Hashtastic's point on milk & pee - the dried molasses variety is used as an ant deterrent in the deep south. But Boys, PLEASE .... don't piss & shit in your plants. I don't care if it hurts or helps, that's just plain GROSS.
I thought you were talking about the original time release Miracle Grow - sorry. Still, there's not much good about any of their products. I suppose some are (much) worse than others, J
Are we talking organic milk or steroid laden. That might explain the 20% increase in yield Sent from my iPhone using Grasscity Forum
Honestly would probably get the same kind of increase in yields with a compost tea. Not knocking your milk idea, just would probably get more bang for your buck as yield has alot to do with root development. It's cool that milk can help deliver calcium and sugars, but a compost tea provides the means for the plants to better uptake these carbs and nutes. Healthy root systems grow big buds, compost tea has over 5000 species of bacteria to aid in this. Unsulfured molasses and compost aerated together for a couple of days makes the basic recipe if you can't get your hands on anything else like powdered myco and other additional bennies. Lots of recipes on google just depends on what you have available to use/ purchase. Hope that helps. EDIT: come to think of it, you could even potentially use them in tandem. In theory of course.
Mycorrhizal fungus won't live in a tea solution - the spores require root contact to even germinate. J
If you have the time, this is a good read on myco's role in compost tea. http://www.arborsmithtreecare.com/compostteaonepage.pdf . You aren't necessarily trying to germinate the spores in the tea brewing process, you're trying to breed a colony of beneficial bacteria that is fed by the carbs (molasses) so that once the rhizosphere is inoculated with the tea it will be introduced to the root structure and therefore germination can begin. Think of bennies as a buddy cop movie -- the fungi and the bacteria act as a team to improve root development. Just look at any one of those expensive root inoculate fungi/bacteria combos like Great White products. Their ingredients are (source): Endomycorrhiza (fungi) Glomus aggregatum – 83 props per gram Glomus intraradices – 83 props per gram Glomus mosseae – 83 props per gram Glomus etunicatum – 83 props per gram Glomus clarum – 11 props per gram Glomus monosporum – 11 props per gram Paraglomus brazilianum – 11 props per gram Glomus deserticola – 11 props per gram Gigaspora margarita – 11 props per gram Ectomycorrhiza (fungi) Pisolithus tinctorious – 187,875 propagules per gram Rhizopogon luteolus – 5,219 props per gram Rhizopogon fulvigleba – 5,219 props per gram Rhizopogon villosullus – 5,219 props per gram Rhizopogon amylopogon – 5,219 props per gram Scleroderma citrinum – 5,219 props per gram Scleroderma cepa – 5,219 props per gram Bacteria Azotobacter chroococcum – 525,000 CFU’s per gram Bacillus subtilis – 525,000 CFU’s per gram Bacillus licheniformis – 525,000 CFU’s per gram Bacillus azotoformans – 525,000 CFU’s per gram Bacillus megaterium – 525,000 CFU’s per gram Bacillus coagulans – 525,000 CFU’s per gram Bacillus pumilus – 525,000 CFU’s per gram Bacillus thuringiensis – 525,000 CFU’s per gram Bacillus amyloliquefaciens – 525,000 CFU’s per gram Paenibacillus durum – 525,000 CFU’s per gram Paenibacillus polymyxa – 525,000 CFU’s per gram Saccharomyces cerevisiae – 525,000 CFU’s per gram Pseudomonas aureofaciens – 525,000 CFU’s per gram Pseudomonas fluorescens – 525,000 CFU’s per gram Trichoderma koningii-187,875 CFU’s per gram Trichoderma harzianum-125,250 CFU’s per gram Other Ingredients Glycine Vitamin package So with all that said, you're still kind of right. As soon as you're done brewing your tea, the whole colony starts to die so using immediately is usually preferred for proper inoculation. You can keep it somewhat useful for up to around 6-7 days if you keep it refrigerated. this is one of the cheaper root inoculate mixes available at hydro stores and some big-box stores and is what I use when I brew up tea. This is an excerpt directly from the label (granted, my recipe is much different than what is shown here as I'm not mixing up 80 gallons of tea): INSTRUCTIONS FOR USE: Watering in: Mix one tablespoon per gallon of water and apply to soil at base of plants. (A stronger dose can be used as needed without harm.) Make sure solution is mixed well before applying. For transplants, dip root systems in solution or touch damp roots in dry product and water thoroughly after planting. Will treat 80 one gallon plants. Hydro: 1 Teaspoon per gallon. Compost Tea: Use 16oz per 80 gallons of tea as a soil drench. Apply tea at normal rate. Storage: if stored in a cool, dry environment product will stay viable for 24 months. For more application methods visit our website at www.thegreengro.com Could all be a bunch of hub-bub, but I see noticeable improvement on side-by-side tests.