In Theory, Heaven and Hell both exist in eternity right?

Discussion in 'Philosophy' started by ismokegreen, Dec 27, 2013.

  1. And assuming that both exist they are states of being that are accessible to those not bound to the 3d (or any for that matter) dimension, then hell exists in an eternal looping moment and heaven exists within an eternity of moments.
     
    Hell exists in a single dimension, heaven on infinite dimensions.
     
    Both exist, but on opposite ends of the infinite, one on the positive scale and one on the negative. 

     
  2. No discussion huh?
     
  3. If that's your belief then sure. Why would you want anybody to debate your beliefs?
     
  4. #4 Boats And Hoes, Dec 27, 2013
    Last edited by a moderator: Dec 27, 2013
    I will leave this gem here for the seekers..
     
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Dv-FDtf5s6I
     
    "And [for] every person We have imposed his fate upon his neck, and We will produce for him on the Day of Resurrection a record which he will encounter spread open."
     
    "[It will be said], "Read your record. Sufficient is yourself against you this Day as accountant."
     
    "Whoever is guided is only guided for [the benefit of] his OWN soul. And whoever errs only errs against it. And no bearer of burdens will bear the burden of another. And never would We punish until We sent a messenger."
     
  5. Just like with god, there exists a possibility for them to exist in this demision. Whether or not they do is unknown, and i dont think it can be known. Only by faith can the afterlife be known, even then there is a possibility for the opposite.
     
  6. there was no hell until lucifer went against god, and there will be a lake of fire in the end for all those bad people like me
     
  7. How i think of it, after god kickd satan out ofthe spiritual realm, he was no longer welcome back in, instead after he physicaly died,( remeber he isnt some almighty entity anymore) the idea of the big crunch comes to play, where the universe collapses back onto intself, until he realises what it did wrong you will forever see life in reverse, and crooked, until eventualy you collapse back onto yourself.

    Heaven now, being the continuum of the universe, just adds to the infinite number sequence, so your voice lives on in other words..
     
  8. I believe the most relevant representation of both heaven and hell exist here on earth. 
     
  9. #9 ismokegreen, Dec 30, 2013
    Last edited by a moderator: Dec 30, 2013
    Man, whenever I post something on this forum people seem to completely misunderstand me. This thread isn't a post attempting to prove a spiritual belief, it's an analysis of a theoretical concept using (very simple) mathematical, theological and scientific understanding. The thought revolves around what the nature of heaven and hell are if they in fact do exist. 
     
    My point is that if these two states of existence are in fact in existence then they must be by definition perfect inversions of the other. This means that they must either both have quantitative spacial and inter-dimensional perimeters OR they are both infinite. Well, if time is in fact an illusion caused by our 3d dimensional perception of the 4th dimension and those dimensions are in fact infinite (which I tend to feel is very probable) then I would assume that Heaven and Hell, if at all in existence, must in fact exist infinitely. This leaves only one option (in my mind). That is that one is infinitely positive and the other is infinitely negative. One is in an infinite state of all encompassing existence and the other is in an infinite state of non-existence. The Darkness and the Light. Both exist, but one exists simply as the separation from the other. 
     
    The way that I most easily saw this exemplified in a simple visual expression was watching a video where there were multiple circles that seemed to be passing by infinitely, like going through an ongoing wormhole of segmented images. Each image was a cross-section of time and itself was a circle, it was a circle because it was a cross-section of the tube shaped wormhole of eternity. This was to me the difference between "heaven" and "hell". Heaven is an all encompassing endless journey within existence and Hell is a single cross-section endlessly looping in upon itself like a snake devouring it's own tail for all time. 
     
     
    Does this make more sense than my OP?
     
    P.S.   -  Also, I would like to bring attention to the fact that darkness is stagnation just like looping eternally within a single cross-section of time is stagnation. There is no energy within perfect darkness because darkness is the absence of light and light emanates from anything that contains energy... perhaps not visible to the human eye but it does exist on some level of electromagnetic radiation. That said, perfect stagnation is the nature of full and true, complete death. The death perhaps of the soul? To me it would make sense if that's what hell actually is. Eternity within an infinitely small cross-section of existence. Eternal death.
     
  10. I hear you and it's an interesting thought, but it relies upon the premise that heaven and hell do exist, and that they are governed by our understand of physics, which would go against the very texts asserting the existence of these places. To make a statement both relying on spiritual faith and our understanding of nature, leaves the blades of GC at a loss for words. Cognitive dissonance, in a phrase.
     
  11. there is no hell that isn't created by man. just as darkness has no power, it is merely the lack of light. ever wonder why they cannot make the opposite of a flashlight, or a dark light that would shine darkness on an object, because darkness has no power hence why there is no place called hell. except perhaps Newark NJ.
     
  12. #12 jayfoxpox, Jan 1, 2014
    Last edited by a moderator: Jan 1, 2014
    is seems odd to say that the 1st dimension is hell and heaven is an infinite dimension. it would be a better description to call it the highest possible dimension considering while 1 is a real number, infinity is not a real number. It is a concept  and uncountable. They are not inverse , since the inverse of an infinity is an infinitesimal . while 1 is the inverse of itself. since 1/1=1
     
  13. I believe heaven and Hell are metaphors for what we make of ourselves.
    We start our lives on a blank slate, no good, no evil, just existence. From that moment on we forge our own destiny whilst subjected to the full brunt of the forces of society guiding us along the way. What we do from then on is our fate, the story we tell is our heaven and our hell. It is life's new beginnings and bitter ends, the ups and the downs, the beautiful moments and the times of despair. According to Daoist philosophy (from the Daodejing poem 41, written by Lao Tzu aka "wise master") "All myriad (living) things carry the Yin on their backs and hold the Yang in their embrace, deriving their vital harmony from the proper blending of the two vital breaths."
     
    This passage shows us that the two polar extremes of life, or in this case heaven and hell these are merely just another way of showing we exist between these two extremes. Subjected to both, never knowing which side will overwhelm us next. This is why I study Eastern religion, it makes sense of the chaos and puts things into the prospective that we as humans are not in control of our destiny, yet we still somehow shape our futures regardless of the forces of nature and beyond. Maybe our actions dictate our fates, or maybe they have no effect; I believe both :smoking:
     
  14. I see where your coming from, but I don't think that heaven and hell are these dimensional realms, nor can they be completely described with mathmatic terms. Heaven and hell are a state of conciousness produced by the concept of conciousness. Heaven isn't this place in the sky, its in your heart and in your actions, but so is hell. Jesus and many eastern monks teach to live for one another and let your "physical self" die so your "spiritual self" can live. This includes having little or no possessions, not giving into wordly distractions/temptations like gluttony, lust, pride, ect. Because if you feed your physical self, the spirit will weaken. Heaven is found by fasting so you can learn to enjoy even a glass of water, giving a homless man new clothes, by telling your family you love them, theres infitite ways to spread love and peace to humanity. But the problem is, it feels so good to feed the flesh and give into temptation, and from here is the problem of humanity. Hell is vice, and the illusions vice makes in mans heart. But, If the human race lived by complete virtue I'm sure many- if not all- problems like war, famine, abuse of power, would cease to exist.
     
  15. well if it's a state of consciousness , then I'm not sure if you need to call them dimensions since dimensions are a property of space. Also the statement of concepts of consciousness producing states of consciousness is questionable since concepts are abstracted from the mind and don't exist independently from the mind. It would be strange say that babies or other animals that don't have the ability for abstract thinking don't have state of consciousness , just because they have no concept of consciousness. Concepts result from the act of consciousness. If it wasn't then you'd be saying that the concepts always existed and it would be wrong to say that the theory of general relativity existed at 800 b.c.
     
  16.  
    heaven and hell are states of being that are produced by consciousness, that's what I meant, not so much the "idea" of consiousness.
    I do think that animals are not really consious, but they're more aware. If you tell a dog to sit, it responds to the word sit. the dog is aware and responds, but is the dog aware that it is responding? That's where human consiousness kicks in. Humans have the ability to be aware that they are aware. I think certain individual organisms along with the species as a whole have their own limits of consiousness. What i mean by this is ants seem to have a very limited awarness, mostly responding to stimuli and instinct. Humans too have instincts but we also have the power to introspect at a deeper level than pure impulse. But certain humans have dedicted their lives to introspection/meditation and i think that they have a much higher consioucness than a human who watches tv 7 hours a day followed by 3 hours of xbox. Animals dont have a concept of heaven and hell i dont think, and its because they're not fully aware of pain and sympathy. Humans are aware that they can feel pain and a human that inflicts pain is aware of the pain the reciever is having. A human in pain thinks "I am in pain" while i think pain in animals is equally painful, but not as aware of the fact, the experience is more "This animal is in pain" instead of " I am in pain". If I sound like Im degrading animals, I defanitly am not. I love animals deeply and simply have been thinking about human and animal consiousness.
     
  17. in terms of a multiverse both would exist in the 6th dimension and since morality is subjective, they wouldn't be opposites
     

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