Immigration and the Welfare State - When Socialists turn Racist

Discussion in 'Politics' started by Jane_Bellamont, Jun 24, 2017.

  1. #1 Jane_Bellamont, Jun 24, 2017
    Last edited: Jun 24, 2017
    There was a story recently here on New Zealand news that was an eye-opener for me..

    Decision to deport blind girl, 5, labelled 'appalling'


    It was the case of a blind 5-year-old South African girl who was recently deported back to her homeland, due to being considered a burden to the New Zealand healthcare system.

    If you had a look at the comments on the article, 95% of them approved of the decision made my NZ immigration.

    What I find ironic is that those same people who say we are 'too soft' on immigration, are the same ones who make fun of Donald Trump and say they don't want New Zealand to have anything to do with him, and keep calling him a Racist.

    However, if you look at the actual facts .. New Zealand actually has MUCH tougher immigration laws than the United States ever will.. and we don't just owe it to our great barrier of water that separates us from the rest of the world and makes illegal immigration impractical, apart from the infamous overstayers.

    New Zealand just so happens to also already have a 'muslim ban'.. and it is much less forgiving than Donald Trump's proposal.

    New Zealand's Refugee Policy is Closer to Trump's 'Muslim Ban' Than You Might Think

    So for all those of you who praise Scandinavian socialist countries with seemingly utopian welfare systems and 'liberal' attitudes toward diversity and foreigners, you might have to think again. They only look that way from the outside, but from the inside .. we are far more racist and less tolerant to diversity than the US will ever be.

    Having read that article made me feel ashamed of my country for a minute, but then .. it really does seems like Socialism is a path to the dark side; right wing nationalism and justified racism. Maybe Libertarians are right - a government that can give you everything, also has the power to take it all away from you. Our Labour party already succumbed to the anti-immigration rhetoric.

    In a free market society, that girl could have been helped by charitable donations. The problem with government-funded safety nets is that often times, it's the majority that gets to decide how the money gets spent .. whereas if one were to have a charitable free market society, then that blind girl may have received donations and gotten the chance to stay here.

    Of course, Charity alone isn't enough to provide for the poor and needy, which is why I favour replacing all welfare schemes and government-funded programs with a Basic income.

    Then again, even the basic income can be funded without taxes, but it does require that we have a culture that feels compelled to give and help out their fellow man. In fact, there's Libertarian organizations already working on a basic income scheme funded by charity, and if their project succeeds and proves to be effective at alleviating poverty, then we may as well do away with taxation and embrace the free market:

    A Billionaire Is Helping Fund a Massive Universal Basic Income Project
  2. #2 Jane_Bellamont, Jun 24, 2017
    Last edited: Jun 24, 2017
    Moral of the story: Be careful what you wish for, is all. There's a reason why the rise of the Bernie bros coincided with the rise of the Trump supporter; they may, after all, be the same side of the coin.

    Fucking bastards, really .. I'm glad that I NEVER voted Labour. You're worse than Trump, heartless hypocritical pieces of shit, deporting a 5 year old blind girl, while giving benefits and softened prison sentences to rapists and murderers. I'd take Trump over you.
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  3. What are the Kiwis doing to celebrate along with their American cousins, the greatest transfer of wealth in history? Champagne for everyone!
  4. How do people equate restrictions on immigration with "racism" in the first place? The thought process is absolutely backwards. Whether it's NZ or America, you don't owe anybody else citizenship in your nation.

    I'm a white Canadian. If I went to the US illegally and got caught and deported, would anybody stand up and say I was being "discriminated against"? Does America owe ME citizenship and rights?

    Can I come to New Zealand and try to use your healthcare system to get that shoulder surgery I'm waiting for? It's taking too long here in Canada.
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  5. Good luck with that surgery dude. It's never going to happen though lol.
  6. I'll get my surgery, but it kind of sucks in the meantime because i can't do a lot of physical activities I'd love to be doing in summer, like swimming.

    That's the downside of socialized medicine, if it's not life threatening, you'll be waiting a long time for things like specialist care.
  7. What's worse: occasionally rejecting the huge financial burden of a single person, or rejecting universal healthcare altogether?

    I'm not advocating one or the other. I'm just asking a PERTINENT question that needs to be asked and contemplated.

    Here's a somewhat similar scenario:

    Suppose you're riding in a public transportation vehicle with a child you don't know. And a wreck occurs. It's bad, and a fire starts. And you have the option of saving your own life for sure, or greatly risking your own life to try and save the child. In the heat of the moment, when it really counts, you choose to save your own life at the expense of the child dying.

    Would you be a bad person for doing that?

    In a similar situation, I'd choose to save my own life for the sake of the family who is depending upon me for support.
  8. That's the real problem behind all the debates about anything socialized, people tend to reject the question of "who's going to pay for it" altogether in favor of moral absolutes. If you raise these questions, supporters tend to say things like "everyone deserves healthcare", or "you don't want that blind kid to get care, you're heartless!".

    When it comes to economics, it's not about feelings or what people "deserve", it's about trade offs and figuring out what the most efficient way to do things is. I love that you're actually bringing up the moral dilemmas that most people would rather ignore or shove onto someone else.
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  9. It's like that common scenario people always say that I'm about to butcher; if there is a train going towards a group of people on a track, would you save them by switching the tracks to hit one person on the other track?

    Most people would say yes but I say fuck it because idiots shouldn't play on train tracks to begin with.
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  10. The people who call it racist belong to the political parties that immigrants vote for.

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