If reality is what you believe than what is reality?

Discussion in 'Religion, Beliefs and Spirituality' started by Americandutchyz, Mar 12, 2012.

  1. I'm sure we're all aware of the theory that life is an illusion and whatever you believe in is real, but if this is true, how can anyone really pin down what reality is?

    sorry if this kinda pointless haha I'm just bored, wanna talk about something :p
  2. I think that's kind of the point. You can't pin it down. The more you try the more it will elude you.
  3. just an interesting topic to think about, since our reality is all we know.
  4. #4 Boats And Hoes, Mar 13, 2012
    Last edited by a moderator: Mar 13, 2012
    Yes, you can. Subjective reality in appearance is "disguised", not "fake". There is an objective world... the world of essence.
  5. Life is what you are compelled to believe. You can pick and choose your spiritual beliefs, but if your car is on the tracks, and you refuse to believe the coming train is dangerous, your life is going to be short.
  6. #6 Americandutchyz, Mar 13, 2012
    Last edited by a moderator: Mar 13, 2012
    Yeah but how can we really know that? If you think about it the concept is really vague..reality.

  7. What do you mean by the last part of that?:smoke:
  8. lol. there is an objective world! no one's ever seen it, but you know..
  9. #9 Boats And Hoes, Mar 13, 2012
    Last edited by a moderator: Mar 13, 2012
    To "be", in the context of human existence, is to be cognizant of your own perception. Perception is somewhat standard, in the context of each specific species; if it weren't this way, wouldn't there be mass amounts of disagreements on what a palm tree looks like? Meaning, if 100 different people, all of them are coherent and can see color in sight, saw a palm tree, would each have a disparate answer? No, there is for the most part, a standard perception of what a palm tree looks, and of things-objects in general, in regards to its specific features and attributes. And I understand that perception can be amplified or dulled in subjective perception - in one perception the green of palm tree leaves can be a lot more present, and in the other perception, the green of the leaves can be quite dull. We can alter reality and perception with our minds to a certain extent, (we live in the world of appearance, we do not create its essence), but we cannot transmute it. Perception is an unconscious ability; our minds, without our own conscious consent, translates in appearance, the world of essence. The world of essence is the unobserved world - as soon as something is observed with the senses, it's rendered an object within the world of appearance, and not in essence. So, we cannot make our reality, we can disguise it.
  10. And this video only solidified my supposition of the world of essence... I saw this AFTER coming up my theory.

    [ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wEzRdZGYNvA&feature=fvst]The Infamous Double Slit Experiment - YouTube[/ame]
  11. But what about the reality of interpretation? Say we both look at this Palm Tree. We may agree on how it looks, or at least we may think we do, but what about how we interpret the tree? You may see the tree as collection of molecules, or as a habitat for a local family of birds, or you may see it as a symbol of something in your life, while I may see it as an embodiment of nature and the growth of existence, or as nature's way of feeding us, or providing shade. Physically we SEE the same thing, but we don't THINK the same thing.
  12. #12 Boats And Hoes, Mar 13, 2012
    Last edited by a moderator: Mar 13, 2012
    Aesthetics and ideas are subjective - Yes. But just because personal perception in appearance is subjective, doesn't mean there is no objective reality - and that is what I'm rebuking... those who deny an objective world, and pure idealist.
  13. But the way we see is made of the same electrical signals experienced through sight as through thought. It's just signals in the brain. So what significance does an objective world have over the subjective?
  14. #14 Boats And Hoes, Mar 13, 2012
    Last edited by a moderator: Mar 13, 2012
    Okay, so, just cause I lost my sight, that doesn't make the fire I'm touching "not real"... perception in appearance is subjective! We constitute the appearance of essences through the mind & senses, ie. physical perception, but how can you create the image or characteristics of fire if you've never perceived it? You can't. You don't create its essence, you translate it into appearance, when perceiving it, ie. "signals in the brain". And this process of perception is not consensual, meaning it's going to happen whether I like it or not. So, I don't create reality, I disguise it, ie. "signals in the brain", in representation. Things aren't "in" the mind, they're before the mind!
  15. So do you subscribe to the idea that this reality would exist regardless of whether we were here to perceive it? I just want to make it clear I'm not trying to debunk what you're saying, I'm just trying to make as much sense out of it as possible for my sake. I somewhat agree, in your example of seeing fire vs feeling it without seeing.

    I think the idea of creating your reality is more about how you interpret it. Like in my palm tree example in the post before this, objectively we both see a palm tree, but how we each interpret it and define what it means to us is how we create out reality. So you do create your reality by deciding how you feel about it, what it means to you, so on and so forth. But surely there is no manner of consciousness yet(that we know of) that has become so aware of itself that it can change the way it physically sees or smells something, ect. Perhaps it is possible, perhaps it is not. Maybe we won't even know, given that anyone that becomes capable of such a feat would be beyond the point of articulating it in verbal fashion, nor be able to describe how this is achieved to any person, even those willing to accept it as possible.
  16. #16 Boats And Hoes, Mar 13, 2012
    Last edited by a moderator: Mar 13, 2012
    1.) Yea, I agree.. Like I said, "Aesthetics and Ideas are subjective" - subject to interpretation.

    2.) Yes; here is another example. This goes back to the question of,"if a tree falls in a empty forest, does it make a sound?"

    The world of essence is objective, and the world of appearance is subjective. My world of appearance, is most definitely going to be different, than the world of appearance according to a dog; we're both in the objective world of essence, we're simply just experiencing it differently, in representation. A dog has a more enhanced stage of hearing than man; this is obvious. My dog and I can be sitting in a room, and all of a sudden, his ears prick up and his head jerks towards a certain direction. I did not hear anything in my world of appearance, but the dog certainly did in his. At all times, within the world of essence, messages are being emitted, on any stage of sense, for perceivers to perceive; even if I, the human, can't detect the noise of a tree falling with my hearing, the dog can, and did.

    Through perception, the object compromises its essence, by conforming itself, and becoming subject to the dictates of our perception. So, the subjective world of appearance only ends, when I retire, but essences subsist, and are continued to be perceived by perceivers. And when all of perception vanishes, essences will remain pristine and indifferent.
  17. haha trippy stuff guys I'm wayy too high to post now but go on :laughing: :smoke:
  18. :smoke:lol, that's really it for me. I'm a proponent of objective reality.
  19. Yeah, I feel I'm out of questions on this matter, as Boats and Hoes has satisfied my inquiries. :)

    The only place I could think to go from here would be to ponder an objective reality after death, when consciousness no longer has a physical matter system to perceive. However, I don't think any of us are really qualified to make any real statements about that since we are all, in fact, alive.
  20. Took the words right out of my mouth, lol.

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