Having a discussion on another forum about this, thought I would copy and paste my thoughts to share with you guys. If God is omnipotent can he create a boulder that is too big to move? Can he create something more powerful than he is? This question reveals that the idea of omnipotence is inherently contradictory and cannot exist. If someone wishes to redefine "omnipotence" to mean "the ability to do anything that is not logically contradictory," then you've stated that your god is subject to the laws of logic. If he created the laws of logic, then he should not be subject to them. If he did not create them, then those laws exist all by themselves and are more powerful than god. Some theists like to argue, "Well, the laws of logic are just god's nature." Great -- more word games. Ok, so did god create his own nature? If he created and chose what his nature was, then he's not subject to it and he can violate it; if he didn't create and choose his own nature, then he's not totally free -- he's bound by something that he didn't create. Choose your poison -- either way, the idea of omnipotence is inherently contradictory and cannot exist.
Or maybe the contradiction lies not with omnipotence, but with the idea of a boulder to big to be moved. How can he create something more powerful than He, if He is All. There are no other materials, just Him. Edit: also wanted to add that i think "powerful" has many meanings. I dont think God is powerful in the sense that he can life heavy stuff (ha, gravity), but powerful in the sense that He is all, maybe controls all.
This statement must be self evident, if we admit the statement that the Absolute is ALL; is everywhere; is universal, and providing that we admit that there is such a thing as power or strength. Of course it may be argued that power and strength are relative terms, being things relative or incidental to the Absolute, rather than absolute things in themselves. This reasoning is correct, at the last, but we are conscious of something we call power, which we are justified in considering a relative manifestation of the Absolute. If there is Power (even relative) it must be OF the Absolute. There can be no other Power. The Absolute must be given credit for ALL Power – not partial Power – not simply more power than something else possesses – but ALL power; all the power there is – unlimited Power- Power enough to accomplish anything. ALL of that which we call power, is a manifestation of the Absolute, and that there is no Power possible from any other source, FOR THERE IS NO OTHER SOURCE FROM WHICH IT CAN COME you cannot understand Gods nature until you merge your spirit back with him, he is incomprehensible to understand from a finite point of view and even so with a higher consciousness we are only able to see all of Gods glory but not know his cause if he has one, you will never truly understand God but you can bask in all his glory and love, until of course you become ONE with him again
Eh, when someone brings up the question "Could god make a taco so hot that he himself could not eat it" I usually ignore the statement because 1 God doesn't eat and 2 he has no tastebuds or nerve endings like you and I In the same vein, why would God have the need to create a boulder so big he couldn't move it? He couldn't physically move the boulder anyway, not in the same sense that we would conceive moving boulders... His omnipotency stems from us. We, all living beings, are like God's atoms, protons, electrons... We cannot escape the infiniteness that is God, and therefore, God is omnipotent. If that came out hard to understand, i appologize, I haven't smoked today yet ;p
You've probably seen this quote but for others who haven't.. “Is God willing to prevent evil, but not able? Then he is not omnipotent. Is he able, but not willing? Then he is malevolent. Is he both able and willing? Then whence cometh evil? Is he neither able nor willing? Then why call him God?†-Epicurus
I am saying that if "God" is omnipotent, he does not follow the rules of logic. He can achieve whatever the fuck he wants
Logic is applicable to humans. God does not need logic like we need logic, he is beyond logic, as what would be his "brain" is so advanced as to create and contain all. Most people think God exists in some kind of human-like form or something, I don't know, but when you start asking such questions, you ignore how incomprehensible the actual "being" that is "God" is to the human mind Like peachesoncrack said, it's very hard to grasp the infinite through finite minds. God does not concern himself with the trivial or the physical, as we know the physical, so such questioning to omnipotence as "can god do something logically impossible"... Well to us it makes perfect sense that, no, he cannot do such things. But he can bend logic anytime he wants and we wouldn't even notice... Bolders do not exist to the infinite like they exist to us... Er... That's getting into quantum physics methinks... btw you should check my thread out called "The Quantum" and watch those vids, it may give you a better idea of how our idea of logic can deceive and put into perspective the vast quantum infiniteness that is the being that I and most true spiritualists call God.
Anthropomorphism is your worst enemy and you keep doing it "want" is not something god would do because he is COMPLETE HE NEEDS NOTHING evil is a concept of man, no other animal would comprehend this, there is action be it evil or good it would be all the same to god because HE DOES NOT JUDGE, why would he need to he knows everything, there is no judging when it comes to knowing everything, for what is there left to judge when everything is known? how could he judge when we are all equal in his supposed eyes? when he loves every fucking particle the same? God does not treat anything or anybody any different
How can god not want yet he can love? You turn down one human attribute and accept a different one. How can he "love" without wanting something to love? "Evil" is a word to describe an action, that we as advanced conscious beings try to describe. What if i killed other humans, not out of evil, but for survival? What if killing someone was the only way i could survive in a certain area? Is that still evil? Do animals not kill other animals for survival? If he knows everything, then he can know answer to illogical ideas. Hense, him being outside logic, he should be able to create something higher than him. God does not treat any of us.
Can you state the passage in the Bible that describes him as being omnipotent in the exact manner that you're describing (defying logic)?
I don't think either of these conditionals are true. It seems possible that God both created logic and follows the rules of logic. Also, you should have used a word stronger than "should" because making a statement about what something should be like is a weak statement. In the second conditional I think you are equivocating the word "powerful". When you are talking about god being "powerful" in this discussion you are making a claim about ability (i.e. lifting a boulder). However, I don't think this is the kind of "powerful" you are talking about when you are describing the laws of logic. Again, I have to disagree. It seems possible that he can create his own nature and not violate it. I think you meant to arrive at a contradiction here but I am not seeing it. God, by definition, is the "best possible being". So to me it seems like God can be all powerful or the best possible being while also being bound by something he didnt create. All beings are bound by logic so even the best possible being, god, is. wait, what...
But Jesus looked at them and said, With men this is impossible, but all things are possible with God. – Matt. 19:26 In Him we also were made [God's] heritage (portion) and we obtained an inheritance; for we had been foreordained (chosen and appointed beforehand) in accordance with His purpose, Who works out everything in agreement with the counsel and design of His [own] will, – Eph. 1:11 For with God nothing is ever impossible and no word from God shall be without power or impossible of fulfillment. – Luke 1:37 And Jesus came and spake unto them, saying, All power is given unto me in heaven and in earth. -- Mt 28:18 I make known the end from the beginning, from ancient times, what is still to come. I say: My purpose will stand, and I will do all that I please. --Isaiah 46:10 I'd like to add that these aren't necessarily my views but I just wanted to show what doing a little googling can do.
he created the laws. and he is beyond logic. yes he can create something immovable even something he cant move. but he can still move it. he can create an impossibility, but i bet he can create the possibility to beat the impossibility. Positive>negative
Omnipotence, from latin Omni Potens- All Power All the force that exists in the Universe is already there inside the Universe, hence it contains all power, the universe is everywhere, going on into Infinity (not multiverses, the true UNIverse), all present, all knowledge that can possibly be known is grasped as the mind unfolds, it is not created, it is understood but already there to be discovered, all knowledge. The funny thing about this paradox is the complete lack of taking Infinity into consideration if it were the case that God was some man in the sky. With Infinite power, one could neither make a rock so heavy that he couldn't lift it, nor always lift the rock, as the weight and strength would go on into INFINITY. Implying that God is linear and finite is the childish belief of the profane masses.
okay let me add, PRETEND that this God is a deity of some type. i don't think he is a man sitting in the sky watching over the universe haha, i am always accused of that. Most of my "God" threads are hypothetical and shouldn't be taken as beliefs. If anything this thread should show that the God many people in is not right.
Haha ok, but still an Infinitely powerful deity, would both be able to continuously increase in strength and the weight of the rock, to imply that there was an end to his strength or an end to the weight of the rock, would imply that being is not omnipotent in the first place, as omnipotence is usually taken as infinitely powerful. And I wasn't referring specifically to you, but most people think of God as a man or woman, because we're "created in His image". The corporeal only has it's analogies to the macrocosm in our body, such as us having 10 fingers and toes. 1 is a reflection of 10, 1 being Unity, the macrocosm, and 10 being it's reflection in the microcosm, so they are synonymous. All numbers can be broken down into 1-9 by addition, they are the only "real" numbers, and they all have a "holy" meaning. 2 represents duality, you need to know good to know evil etc. 3 is representative of the creation, the physical astral spiritual planes, 4 represents physical manifestation, fire water air earth, 5 (you have 5 fingers on each hand for this reason) represents man in his complete being, that of fire water air earth and akasa/ether or the God essence, and so on up to 10.