If God created Lucifer..

Discussion in 'Religion, Beliefs and Spirituality' started by g0pher, Oct 10, 2007.

  1. I believe that a person is what he intends to do.

    If a person intends to do an evil act then he is intentionally evil. If a person isn't in control of his intentions then other forces are in control of his intentions. Actually almost nobody has a mastery of their intentions; the people who do are the guru's of our society, because they are in touch with their self; and know how to master what they think, rather than letting their environment think for them.

    Now if you are unable to escape from the trap of not knowing your intentions, is it your fault for not being able to escape; or is it your DNA. I have read articles that show that you can exert control over your DNA by the state of mind that you are in... actually there was a thread about that on here a while ago.

    So to me it looks like you always have the ability to choose to make yourself better than where you started at.
     
  2. i'd like you all to consider the problem in this way:


    when growing marijuana you are, in essence, its God. we know that a plant can have a final outcome of two possibilities (unless it is feminized strain but we'll ignore that for now) which would be female or male.

    now, thread after thread we read of the growers simply tossing aside and destroying the plants which turn out male REGARDLESS if they have spent upwards of 3-5 months cultivating the plant before finding out that it was, in fact, male.

    i liken this situation to the divine and perfect being's plan for us. he knows we can come out either good or evil. perhaps he is aware of the final outcome, perhaps not. in the growers case, he is not. now once we have completed the usefuleness of ourselves (our entire life cycle) we die. at this point we are either inherently good or in fact evil. it is then his intention to cast out the 'spoiled' souls or those of which are undesireable to him. i.e. male marjijuana plants to the grower.

    the divine creator makes the beings regardless of the fact, and in full knowledge really, that there is a good if not entirely likely chance that they will be undesireable (remember, male marijuana plant) reject his ideals and perhaps even completely deny his existance.

    -----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------


    god creating lucifer does IN NO WAY SHAPE OR FORM prove that god is by association evil, in fact it proves the OPPOSITE. God created creatures which have the entirely unique ability of free will. free will is unconditional in that if god said creatures can do whatever they want, think however they want and believe whatever they want EXCEPT for those things which are wrong in my opinion (i.e. evil) THEN that would NOT be free will by definition!!!

    he is uniquely divine in that he fully accepts that in fact, most of his creations will not only turn away from him but either hate him or completely deny his existence. you see, its sort of part of the deal with this whole experiment known as creation.


    he gets it, it isnt like he couldnt completely wipe out all of existance so that it was just him again (as it was in the VERY beginning) and wipe the slate clean, so to speak.


    but that isnt the point you see. hes doing this all for a purpose. a purpose which no mortal could even begin to fathom until you are far shuffled off this mortal coil.

    so you see children,
    lucifer is nothing more than another creation that has turned away, which is nothing less than ALREADY expected by him the creator. no big deal.


    THE REAL big deal of all of this, is that lucifer knows he will be punished eventually.... and only seeks to drag as many other creations as he can down with him. misery loves company, so to speak. SO we're left with one freak creation gone completely as expected, only desiring to ruin god's 'experiment' and affect its outcome in a negative way.

    Scientifically, lucifer is an anomaly. every scientific experiment will at some point have anomalies and outliers. these are expected and in no way dramatically change the general results. the same applies. end of rant.
     

  3. That's like the difference between tobacco and cannabis right there. One is accepted socially the other is not.
     
  4. You see Angels are Gods Messengers. They too have freewill

    Lucifer was jealous and thought he should have mankind worship him. God created free will.

    God could un create what did not follow him but then that would not allow free will would it?

    Lucifer decided he wanted control and influenced other angels as well they were removed from Heaven and sent to Earth where they would rule.

    They followed Lucifer as they believed they would have their power they wanted and not serve God.

    Just as we have our freewill to choose God you see that this has been done already at the beginning of creation.

    This is shown in the Bible so that we may learn that we are here to serve God and be his messengers as well.

    Those that wrote books of the Bible were also messengers of his Word because they opened themselves to doing so.

    :hello:
     
  5. The following is my opinion, but I think it's a damn good one:

    Religion was invented for political and economic purposes. Ever since humans started living in social settings, social problems arose. Due to certain, deeply-rooted human tendencies, it's been difficult to get people to make personal sacrifices for the common good. For example, how many of you actually watch your carbon footprint? Al Gore was trying to unite the world against a common threat, but nothing has the power to manipulate the populace like religion. It subsides the fear of death, creating fearless soldiers ready to do the bidding of their leader. It eases the pain of loneliness, providing citizens with an all-powerful imaginary friend. Finally, it provides an easy appeal to authority; if people start to question your motives, just say that God told you to do it. Hitler used it, Bush used it, and obviously theocracies depend on it. Religion is a brilliant tool, but it's unlikely that any of it is real. It'll be interesting to see what happens once more people realize that.
     

  6. What you have described is the abuse of religion to control mankind. That is the manipulation by Satan of what God really is about.

    God created the relationship between Man and God.

    Mankind created "religions" or beliefs that are used to control the masses.

    When you seek God on a spiritual level and accept Jesus Christ that he came to Die for you and if you so choose to say yes thank you for making it possible that my sins can be forgiven. I want you to be my spokes person I choose to follow you then you are accepting God's gift to be free of sin.

    This is not religion. Uniting with others that believe the above is the "Church" of followers of Christ. "Church" is not a building but people. You could call people with a common belief a religion but there is a fine line of what religion is and what worshiping God is.

    I hope you can see the difference:wave:
     
  7. I do see the difference, but I don't see any reason to buy into either one. Yes, it's comforting to think you've got a god on your side and all that good stuff, but I don't think it's rational. As long as you don't depend on God for anything, I don't see the harm. The problem is, a lot of people confuse faith with dependence, and they refuse to accept modern medicine in favor of prayer. Your relationship with God shouldn't interfere with your relationship with reality.
     

  8. Yes some people go off the deep end of reality in the name of their beliefs.

    That does not mean that they are correct in their beliefs or that God is not real because of their actions. :wave:
     
  9. Wait, what?
    All I'm saying is, there's no reason to believe in the Christian God any more than there is for the Hindu gods, the ancient Roman gods, or the FSM.
     
  10. #50 7even11, Apr 13, 2009
    Last edited by a moderator: Apr 13, 2009
    You may think that because you do not have a personal relationship with the one True God

    Or even took 5 minutes to understand what any of the religions you speak of are about
     
  11. See, the thing is, I was raised a Christian. I know what it's all about and I know about the "personal relationship with Jesus" we're all supposed to have.
    I have Hindu friends, Buddhist friends, Islamic friends, you name it. I'm pretty familiar with each of the belief systems.

    My lack of belief isn't due to lack of exposure, it's due to objective reasoning.
     
  12. So you think because you chose to not follow the God that you are better than everyone that does? Because you have "objectionable" reasoning?

    listen that is your free will. You are no better than anyone so stop thinking that you are "smarter" for making the choices you have.

    Only you have to live with them so you are impressing nobody as much as you hope that you are.:wave:
     
  13. Where'd you get that idea? I never said I was better than anyone else, just that I was unable to believe anything religious and I can't see why anyone else would either. Also, it's "objective," not "objectionable." Two very different meanings.

    I'm not trying to impress anyone... just procrastinating before I get to my paper due tomorrow. You sure do seem to wave a lot...
     
  14. I think Satan was made up because Jews under the Achaemenid Persian empire were exposed pretty heavily to Zoroastrianism, which is ALL ABOUT dualities. Zoroastrianism obviously has its two opposing deities, Ahura Mazda and Angra Mainu, respectively good and evil, and each has their own set of servants, kinda like God with angels and Satan with demons.

    At the end of the world they duke it out and in a big act of Judgment Ahura Mazda wins out and all the sinners are carried on a river of molten metal down to Hell, which is also a Zoroastrian invention, as is Heaven. Before the Achaemenid Persians you don't really see the idea of a Judgment in Judaism- there's an afterlife but it's just this dreary place where your soul goes that's really dull and lifeless and everybody goes to the same place. God judged you and helped you or hurt you here on Earth, which obviously is problematic because the world is fucked up and the wicked seem to make out rather well, actually.

    Under the monotheism of Judaism you obviously can't have two gods so Angra Mainu magically becomes a rebellious angel who is almost as bitchin' as God, but not quite. Good is still assured victory but now you have a counterpoint for God and this convenient duality where none was before.

    It's all thanks to fucking Zarathustra, man!
     
  15. If this whole thing is true then Lucifer (btw i hear that Satan was not referred to as Lucifer until long after the point in time when the Bible was written...i could be wrong though) is just wasting his time. so what if the whole planet worships him? theres always God who created him and who, i guess, can also destroy him or something like that... so yaeh. this debate bores me
     



  16. That's sound's like a reference to the "Annunaki" theory. How we are slaves to a reptilian race. Sound like a improbable idea?
    Check out Truthism.com
     
  17. That seriously altered my view of everything... I'm now suffering from paradigm paralysis and cognitive dissonance.
     
  18. Yea man, It fucked me up for awhile too.
    Hahah.
     

Share This Page