Rights and freedoms, in the country that gave us Guantanamo bay. I hate the idea of cops getting all in my face and searching me with no reason other than they feel like it. But I live in the real world where this happens, so I don't put myself in a position where it can happen. Hell maybe the US cops are all real pigs that shove a baton down your through at the first opportunity, but in the UK I know from personal experience that if your show some respect you generally get left alone. So this time they searched some innocent guy and got nothing. What if next time they stop a serial rapist. I'm happy to put up with a mild inconvenience if it keeps my streets safer, maybe I have just been brainwashed by the man. But as I say, my attitude towards the cops has kept me from getting any kind of police record. You may have the right to drive where ever the hell you want, but taking an interest in the cops means they will take an interest in you.
I feel you man. That was illegal and when I bring my white friends into the ghetto it always raises eyebrows... from cops and passersby. One day a dude in the liquor store told me I was "hot"... meaning I was drawing too much attention with my white hipsterish passenger smack dab in the middle of the hood. Make absolute certain that papers are filed on all the officers involved. It's your duty as a citizen to keep these buffoons from illegally holding up other law-abiding citizens.
Lol, yea that's a fair point. I guess I just hate this societies views of the cops. We want you to catch the criminals, but don't impose on my freedoms. Unless a cop happens to be right next to a crime in progress the only way they will catch criminals is by stopping people they suspect and find out if they are criminals. Yes its guilty until proven innocent which is unfair and bullshit, but we are talking about some guy who got pulled over and who's only real complaint is that they made him a little bit more hungry. If he was wanted for a crime, or had a lot of drugs, or guns or whatever then the police would have got a pat on the back, job well done. They pulled him over because they thought there might be chance of that being the case, this time their wasn't and they went on their merry way.
Chiper, by that logic, you should search everybody, because technically, there's a chance that anybody could have drugs or guns on them. That's why you need PROBABLE CAUSE, because if not for that, police would just search everybody. Next, if I want to drive by and look at cops, I can do that. That's not illegal. I don't think it's stupid either, I didn't think they were going to pull me over, or I wouldn't have done it. And to everyone who is saying, "You were driving in that part of town where there are only drugs, so they have a right to pull you over." First of all, I'm not the only one driving through there; why don't they pull over everybody who goes there then? Second, think about this. If a neighborhood is full of white people, and there are reports of black people constantly stealing things, and then some black people come up just on a friendly ride, and get pulled over by the police because they are the only black people in a white neighborhood, doesn't that sound wrong? That's how it was for me. Only white people in a black, bad neighborhood, and we are assumed to be looking for drugs. That's fucking profiling, no matter what the god damn environment is. People keep saying I should be thankful I wasn't robbed, be glad I'm safe, and forget about this. To those people, fuck you. I am thankful for those things, but that doesn't change the fact that officer was out of line and broke the law. If police (in general) are going to get on me so hard about smoking weed, a harmless plant, I'm going to get on them for breaking a real law. Also, I would never pay to pursue this. I believe I said I would only try to sue if my lawyer agreed to do it for free. I'm not dumb enough to spend thousands of dollars and hours of time on something like this, or any lawsuit for that matter. One more interesting thing... I called the police station today and issued my complaint. The officer who I talked to sounded really dumb. He said in this confused voice, "Well, uh, I wasn't there, so I can't do anything." His exact words. OF COURSE he wouldn't be there! He could say that about literally any complaint. So I finished by saying I would call my lawyer and he quickly responded, "Okay thank you" really fast, then hung up. I guess what some of you guys have said about them doing anything to get rid of this is true. However, I called the Internal Affairs office, explained the situation again, and they are going to send me something in five business days with more information and a detective's phone number to call. I also called my lawyer but he didn't call me back, so I'm calling again tomorrow.
Fucking a man that be thankful attitude never got any progress done. I'll be watching this with great interest. If you keep up with this something has to happen. Which is always better than nothing.
I really hope you can get this to court. To all those saying the cops are in the right here, what the fuck? No. This is the fucking United States of America. We have rights. And it's people who ignore them that destroy them. If everybody knew and defended their rights we wouldn't have outrageously unjust police action like we have today. So thank you for fighting, thank you for knowing your rights, and thank you for being a true American. You should be proud.
It will not go to court man... in the end they didn't charge him with anything. He wouldn't win anything worth pursuing in a civil rights case.. that no lawyer would take on anyway. The goal here is to mark the offending officer's records.
Its too bad we're not all lawyers, the cops love an easy prey. If everyone could cite precedent cases, and rattle off about how big of a lawsuit is coming shit like this wouldn't happen, or at least not as much.
hahaha always the best when dumb cops think they have u fucked, when ur the one laughing inside cause u know the cars clean
Wow, this is INSANE! I found a thread on a cop forum about a situation nearly EXACTLY like mine, except this was even more sketchy. Two cops see a white kid and two black kids in a car, in a high crime/drug area, then they pull them over and ask to search. After the kid says no, the dumbass cop thinks he can execute a "Terry search" for weapons, then finds drugs. In this thread, he asks the other cops if it was a good search: How often to you use "Terry" to justify a vehicle search? Basically all the other cops start BITCHING this cop out hard. Here are some quotes by real police officers regarding an illegal search essentially just like mine. "Sounds like a bad search to me. Most you could have done was to have them exit the car and look around for anything in plain view. Keep doing these kinds of searches and you'll lose pretextual stops in your state too." "IMHO...you should have searched for weapons first. The point of searching for weapons is for Officer Safety. If Officer Safety is your true concern, it should come first. Not after you are told NO for a consentual search. I agree with the "wingspan" search for weapons. I just think that you got it backwards. " "That is pizz poor articulation. You can NOT invent some fear of a weapon to get into a vehicle. If you had that fear of a weapon (officer safety), it would have been BEFORE he said no. You wanted in the car, he said no and you just invented PC to get in the car. That's bullsh*t and you're going to get yourself and your partner sued. You are allowed to frisk a vehicle for weapons with ARTICULABLE reason for that. Being black or white or being in a high crime area isn't going to cut it. Furtive moment is one thing. Driving while white/black/purple is another. You're going to pull this crap on the wrong person and a Defense attorney is going to tear you up in court. You'll lose your rep and integrity. All it takes is one time and your career is done." I LOVE seeing cops bitch at each other. Anyways, I think that's what this dumbass girl cop said. I heard her say "vs. Ohio", and I guess what she said was Terry vs. Ohio. What that means is if the officers feel threatened, all they can do is search your outer clothing in a limited fashion. Another case, Michigan vs. Long, extends it so if they feel threatened, they can do a limited search of the vehicle. Ha ha, I've learned so much legal shit from this incident... But anyways, there is NO FUCKING WAY they felt threatened. For one, an offier would NEVER ask you to consent to a search, and then do a Terry or Michigan search if you said no. You don't need consent to do those, and if you felt in serious danger, you wouldn't ask. It is clear these cops truly didn't know what they were doing, and I'm really not stopping until this officer learns what she did wrong and pays for it. Either with a mark on her record with the state giving me money. Thanks for all the support guys, I really appreciate it. I'll be sure to keep this thread updated with anything that happens!
Just kinda curious, I mean I understand the stereotype, but...Do the people saying that White kids can only ever be in the hood for drugs believe it? Because if it's justified to stop any young White person in the hood because they MUST be buying drugs, then it must be justified when they stop any young Black person in the suburbs, 'cause they could ONLY be breaking into houses, right? C'mon, people. There ARE poor Whites out there. Just like there are middle class Blacks. And definitely, follow through on that case, man. It was full on illegal. Just don't expect much to come from it, police protect their own no matter what, even in the wrong. EDIT: OP beat me to the punch. Disregard this post
I think you gave them probable cause, being two white kids in a rough part of town taking an interest in police affairs. And you complain about profiling but that's how policing works. You see a guy walking around with a crow bar and gloves on, chances are he is a crook. What if he really is a dock worker walking home with cold hands? Is it then profiling to stop him even though its more likely he is a criminal. You fitted the profile of a criminal, and so they stopped you. They may have broken the law in carrying out the search and TBH I know fuck all about US law in that respect. I just don't see how them pull you over was out of line at all.
Because race isn't probable cause. Period. Neither is driving on a public road. Or driving past a police officer and looking at him.
You kind of self-incriminated yourself. Don't get me wrong I am on your side 100% here, but cops are reeeaaal assholes. By saying you tried cannabis a few times the cop will point that out and try to justify her illegal actions.
I know, that cannabis thing is the only thing I'm worried about. But somebody here said I could've said I was a crack whore in the past and it wouldn't have been probable cause. And it shouldn't. Plus, they tried to use Terry v. Ohio as their probable cause, which they can't. They cannot retroactively change it to me having said, "I tried cannabis", which isn't cause at all because over 50% of Americans have done so. I'm calling my lawyer again now. Hopefully he gets back to me.
yep yep yep..They thought they had them a bust. They smelled a rabbit. It wasn't right, but that's what they do to catch people. You hit up on a couple Barney Fife's when you slowed down to look. Even so, the police are not supposed to operate by illegally searching you. There's a reason for laws, right. I definitely see why you want to pursue it, but like others people said, they are going to come up with 'probable cause' story and get off. Maybe it'll check them in the future if they are hassled by this incident though. More power to you for sticking it some cops that were over-stepping their authority. I was loving the fact you didnt have shit on you, because that would have really fucked you up. I was astounded to read that they asked if you were terrorists...wtf? That was red flag right there...And what's more, what did they expect you to say? ...'Yes, mam, we have come to burn and pillage'...Please hand-cuff us immediately' I would've lol'd had I been asked that. The one and only time I was busted was when my friend and I were on the way to a Jerry Garcia Band show in Maryland. We were coming through the toll on the way into VA. They were pulling people over when you had to stop for the toll, based on the 'look' people had...y'know, stickers on the car, wooked out hippies, etc..Me and my friend didnt look full on wook, but we definitely had the 'head' gear..clothes, packed car, I think I had a Jerry sticker on my car then. When we pulled up to the toll, the cop asked if we had any drugs in the car. We denied, of course. He told us to pull onto the side, where they had a bunch of other people pulled over. That's when we knew we were fucked. All of em were heads going to this show. They proceeded to take every last fucking thing out of the car and search it with a fine-tooth comb. Well, we had been saving up weed for a while for this trip, trying not to smoke it all...lol. We had hit the bong about 30 minutes before we ran up on this. Fuuuuuuuu...yeah, instant buzz kill. So of course, they are pulling all the shit out and out comes the bong, then the weed. Luckily, that was all we had. I think we had a quarter each. The only good thing was that we didnt get carted off to jail. They took out info down, and whipped out a camera. No shit. They said heads usually show up to court, and considering the amount we had on us, and since we had no other shit, like acid, we could go. They basically wrote us a ticket and we had to show up for court a few months later. It ended up being a $300 fine....LOL. As we were driving off though, that was a pretty shitty feeling. No bong, no weed. Just raped. Fuckers.
Let this experience serve as a reminder that every time you have an encounter with LEO's that there are a few simple rules to make sure you are safe in the exchange. 1. Always cut off the engine and remove your keys then place your hands on the steering wheel. This does 2 things, it shows the officer that you have no intentions on running and allows you to immediately lock your door if removed from the vehicle. 2.ALWAYS LOCK YOUR DOOR. When you are asked to step out of the vehicle always lock your door. This makes searching your vehicle a situation where they have to either have a warrant, or permission from you. They can always wait to get a warrant if you have actually done something wrong but in most cases you wouldn't be pulled from the vehicle unless there is a reason. I personally have only ever been removed from the vehicle when I have been reported for a crime or disturbance of some sort. 3. Answer the officer's questions honestly and only omit the details that don't matter. (like you just smoked a bunt in the woods) Don't try to hide your identity, Don't tell them a lie about a verifiable fact like who you are or who's car you're in. That's obstruction and you will be charged. 4. When in doubt say no. Say "no, I'm not comfortable with this, am I under arrest? What probable cause do you have to want to search my vehicle?" if they say no you are not under arrest at least you know where you stand at that moment. This is one thing that can change if they find a reason for it to. Typically this is best to say right after they ask to search your (locked) vehice. If they have PC to search you will probably be in the detained position. ie. handcuffed... And my best rule to go by is the most simple way to avoid LEO's all together... Do not mix your crimes. Don't break more than 1 law at a time. If you are in posession you are already breaking the Law, don't make it worse by driving a vehicle that has bad lights, speeding, or failing to follow traffic laws. The most common way to get pulled is fogetting to do a walk-around of your vehicle before you transport any drug. I got cited for having a plate-light out... that cop was looking for ANY reason to pull me over and the way I was driving wasn't going to do it for him, he tried to pull me from the car and execute a search on me and my vehicle but I locked my door and had my keys making him call a k-9 unit out... when the k-9 didn't hit on me or my car I was issued a fix-it citation and was cut loose.. I had no prior drug charges.. I had no smell of drugs on me.. I hadn't even come from a bad neighborhood... Sometimes the cops are too jaded and too sure that you match a "profile" to let that preconceived notion go untested... Watch yer back and good luck with the unlawful search case... You should go to their precinct and complain in person... have exact time and date and try to have a lawyer with you.. also call your local news station and see if they have an interest in the story... media attention always gets action... EDIT: this is in that other forum and is an example of a proper stop: Wow I just went to court last tuesday on a dope case that we won and it was the result of me finding dope while frisking a vehicle. This was a suppression hearing. However, to the original poster just based on what you stated it was a flawed search. You have to be able to clearly articulate your reasons for suspecting possible weapons. Though you do not need PC articulating is a big key component here. I saw a known drug dealer and user driving while I had just cleared a call with 3 other deputies. When he seen us he made a gross traffic violation. I had PC to pull him over. Two deputies headed for him and I made the block thinking he was going to run. I ended up pulling up to the traffic stop as he was stopping but I pulled in front of him (not preferred just how it happened when I rounded the corner). Anyways he was so busy looking in his side mirrors at the deputies behind him he hadn't realized another cop (me) pulled up in front of him. I could see him clearly moving around to the point his head was at one point below the steering wheel. He appeared to be hiding and stuffing something about inside the vehicle. As I exited my unit and approached him he got a deer in the headlights when he realized that I had probably been watching him and that he had not noticed me previously. Being that he was a known and convicted drug dealer in a high crime area, and drug dealers are known to carry deadly weapons that with the observed movement as his vehicle came to a stop and the sweating on a cool day and other articulable nervous gestures led me to believe he MAY possibly be armed on his person or in his vehicle. When he was asked to exit the vehicle, he initially refused and questioned why. We had to put 2 tasers on him and a firearm with one grabbing his wrist to coach him out. Before going into anything and before mentioning the word dope, narcotics, or drugs, I asked about weapons on his person or in the vehicle that we should know about. He was patted down for weapons and none was located. I asked if he had weapons in the vehicle that he was not suppose to have, he stated no. I asked to search and he said no. At that point I stated to him on audio and video, that do to officer observations (didn't elaborate as I didn't want to educate him) along with other factors I have reason to suspect that there maybe available weapons inside the vehicle and that at that time for my safety as well as his I was going to "FRISK" the passenger compartment of his vehicle. I then proceeded to look inside the vehicle for weapons. I kept it to obvious spots, under seats, clothing, glove box, center console, visors. While looking I observed what appeared to be a plastic bag stuffed in between the driver and passenger seat. As I seperated the seat to get a better look (gun could be stuffed in between the seats) I observed what appeared to be crack cocaine. I could have, but went one step further and stopped my FRISK. I placed him in handcuffs for investigative detention. I called K9 to the scene and put the dog on the car. The dog hit on the car. I then went inside and retreived the bag which turned out to be 2 cookies of crack. At the hearing the judge even stated that I went above what was required to protect the "citizens" rights by stopping and getting the dog to check. The judge noted that I did not have to. I knew this guys history, but if you have the capability in your car when you run their license run their CH also. My drivers license program in my car also gives me your criminal history also along with your license info. So even if I didn't know this guy. Along with the observed factors the "new found" knowledge of his criminal history involving weapons would suffice over the prior knowledge of the individual that I had on this guy. Your biggest faults are you said search the vehicle you didn't specify for drugs or weapons. so when he said no, it APPEARS that you just want to get in a search to see what you can find. It has to appear that your entire concern is checking for weapons for safety. You cannot in any way appear to be after drugs. That is why I never mention drugs (even when that is what I suspect) first. Everything is weapons, weapons, weapons. Do you have weapons. Do you mind if I search your car for weapons. Do you have weapons on you. Have you ever been arrested on weapons charges or charges involving a weapon. Meanwhile you need to be picking apart their behavior and demeanor to gain articulable facts that you can use to justify why you felt the need to check for weapons. Someone saying no you can't search is not reason to check for weapons. So, always hide your dope in an area that cannot be checked for potential weapons... EDIT#2 - Those cops are troling on each other! lol @ trollcops