Most of you know how I stand on things, but for those who don't, here's a real quick summary: I have a firm belief in science, scientific evidence, fact, etc. and little to no belief in the philosophies and texts of the Western religions- I believe the Bible, the Koran and the Torah are books of fables meant to teach good lessons with fairy tales meant to scare obedience into the masses, and that they are filled with atrocities, contradictions- Generally bad reading material if you don't read it in a tongue-in-cheek sort of way. THIS WAS NOT MEANT TO OFFEND OR BASH ANYONE, NOR TO FLAMEBAIT OR START A FLAME THREAD. I'M SIMPLY CLARIFYING MY BELIEFS. I'M SORRY IF THIS ANGERS YOU< PLEASE TRY TO LOOK PAST IT. But there are two side to everything- As much as I refute these beliefs and may try to disprove them to others... I have faith in some things. Some things that just make sense to me, no matter what science says to me. That has to make me a hypocrite, doesn't it? I sometimes even tend to look down on people who put their faith in a religious text.. But who am I to do that when I have faith in some things that I have no proof of, other than personal experience? I mean, sure, Christians/Muslims/Jews may say they feel the presence of God/Allah/Yahweh/Jesus/Mohammad/Abraham when at their particular religious service, or even deep in meditation or prayer... But I didn't come to these conclusions or feelings through that. I looked at my life, and the things that have happened in it, looked at the science, and looked at the other possibilities.. And.. The ones that had no proof were what just clicked in my head. Confused? I'll explain. When I was eight, my mom had already developed asthma, because she, at 38, had been smoking since she was 11. Well, at around eight years old, she was exposed to bronchitis, and her body developed COPD- Chronic Obstructive Palmanary Disorder. Basically a big phrase that meant advanced, terminal emphysema. She got very, very sick. Couldn't make it out of bed sick. Wasn't supposed to live past my tenth birthday. Well, she did. She actually started getting better. Occasionally, she'd get sick again and have to go to the hospital, and the doctors would say she wouldn't live past such-and-such.. Well, I'm 19 and she's still alive. My mom is a very spiritual person, and those beliefs were.. well, she would talk to me about them when I was younger.. Not force them, but.. Just talk to me. She always told me she believed that God was watching us, and helping us, and I believed her for awhile. As I got older, I started to do my own reading and research about religions, etc... But here I am now, 19, with an ailing but alive mother. We live on our own- Her and my father divorced when I was four, and my step father killed himself about a month shy of my fourteenth birthday. We somehow manage to make an $800 mortgage payment and pay bills while only receiving child support, disability and social security. I believe there's some kind of higher power, no idea what it is, what it's like, but I just do. Science says otherwise? That's nice. Doesn't change how I feel. But when I look at that from an objective perspective, I'm acting exactly like a christian/muslim/jewish person who can stare scientific evidence in the face and ignore it for their belief. The only difference is, mine belief is not in a religion, just in a force that cannot be explained that watches over humanity in general. And mine was not taught to me... I just kind of thought it out for myself. So, a lot of the time, I feel like a hypocrite. What do you think?
You aren't a hypocrite. If anything, you sound a bit confused to me. EDIT: Besides, I don't think saying a higher power exists is necessarily similar to believing in God. All anyone need do is look around, how could one not believe in a higher power? Nature itself could be this higher power.
It's easy. I coul go to Zylark or MelT and ask them for scientific evidence that a higher power does nto exist, and they'd happily give me pages upon pages of material. But I feel hypocritical for essentially bashing on people who have faith in somehting they can't neccesarily prove, when I am the exact same way. Well, I suppose.. I don't bash people for having faith in something, exactly.. More for blindly following a religion.. You're right.. I am pretty damn confused. I mean, I could speculate for hours, like.. How nature could be the higher power? That's true. People who believe in evolution and the like essentially believe in the structure of order of the universe-The nature of it- That in itself is a power because it IS a force, if you really think about it. From the evolution of a species right down to the way unicellular organisms work, it is all part of biological life, one thing that varies into an uncountable number of complexities, big and small. What if the same thing that controls that force, controls the forces we can't neccesarily see, explain or prove? See? I get confused.. haha.
Yeah. I mean...in the end, it doesn't matter what other people believe, it matters what you believe. The worst case scenario is this: If you are a hypocrite, your hypocrisy would be somewhat inadvertent, and with no malice intended. there's nothing wrong with that mate!
That pretty much sums up my beliefs as well. Science says there is no evidence to suggest the existence of a higher power, but it can never really be proven that a higher power doesn't exist. There are plenty of subjects scientists disagree on, and that's why we're all entitled to our personal opinions. I believe that there is a higher power, which in the distant future science may be able to prove. But until then, we all have the right to believe what we want to believe. You're not a hypocrite. Personally, I think it's good to balance things out. Don't shut religion out just because it doesn't make sense to you. You don't care that an atheist would say there is no higher power, you still believe in one. Everyone is different and clearly not everyone thinks the same, so if religion works for someone, good for them. Even if all religions are false, I still think there is a great deal to be learned from them despite all the bad things they have caused. You can disagree with a religion, but respect it and realize that it is based on faith.
Maybe your confusion is based more on the fact that you still have these ideas even though so much "evidence" to the contrary is available? Welcome to the revolution. I'm a firm believer in science without question, but I'm also a believer in God. I ain't gonna preach, persuade, finagle, or trick someone into going where I am but I do understand.
To me this is a somewhat logical religion you beleive in just a greater power this is not that strange it's hard to imagine that there is no greater force. It's much different than believing any other religion like christianity that claims theres a man in the sky controlling everything with no logical evidence. While you believe that there is just a greater force that you have no idea what it's like or what it's purpose is.
'God' and 'Higher Power' are two different things. I mean, if God does exist, whats making him work? There's got to be a higher power for God!
I know, sometimes.. It's just hard. I've seen way too many religious people walking around like their shit doesn't stink, they've got everything figured out, and anyone who doesn't think like them is either a poor soul who needs saving or some worthless sinner going to hell.. So I'm kind of jaded... But it's no excuse, really. I'm trying to be less negative and critical of other's beliefs, it's just hard when a lot of them are really haughty about it, so you end up generalizing the way you deal with religious people in general, and that is a mistake.
Who created God? I'm also completely confused when it comes to religion. I was raised to believe one thing but then I get in the real world and it's completely the opposite.
So you have faith in your feelings. Can we all agree feelings are not objective? If so they cannot be trusted to be the sole decision maker in any sort of situation. I think it's important to understand this so that when trying to decide if a hypothesis is true or not you can make a decision based upon objective material, rather than subjective feelings that are completely biased towards comfort and pleasure.
That's definitely hypocritical of you, but console yourself with the fact that you're not alone. There's about six billion people in that club. I myself have been prone to bashing religious people, for being both irrational and hypocritical, but I don't anymore, for the same reasons you have stated. I just happen to be hypocitical with my political/moral views, so I've just stopped bothering people. We ALL tend to be hypocritical in one way or another, because, let's face it, we ain't all exactly Einsteins. We're biologically wired to be irrational (saves computational resources), so while some of us try our best not to be, we may still end up committing some of the same errors we've been judging. The only course of action, once you identify some hypocrisy in your life, is to minimize or end it completely. If you really are unjustified in attacking people's irrationality while you harbor some of your own, then just stop doing one: either stop being irrational or stop attacking irrational people. That's why I've stopped persecuting the religious. I still get happy when they try to take me on, though, because I can say that they started it.
But in the long run, I don't make any life-altering decisions based on my feeling or faith in the higher power. I use my own morals and logic. And in the long run, what kind of harm could this faith do to me? I don't rely on it for comfort or guidance, and I don't use it as a crutch, excuse or substitute for logic.
I have to give you respect for your train of thought. Your posts are usually, from what I've gathered, in the past, have come off to me as being somewhat agnostical. I'm glad to see that you do not deny the existense of a Higer Power, but more so acknowledge the Higher Power.
You do realize that an agnostic does not deny the possibility of a higher power (i.e. a creator), right?
I don't use it. It's just there, in the back of my mind, constantly. I acknowledge no existence of one specific ("the") Higher Power, nor will I ever. I am actually acknowledging nothing but my own feelings and thoughts- Nothing more.