Hygrozyme in organic soil

Discussion in 'Growing Organic Marijuana' started by randomseed, Dec 2, 2010.

  1. Just wanted to confirm or break an idea I had.
    First off Im comming from a chem growers background.
    Ive been using Hygrowzyme for quite awhile, mostly started as a way to speed up the root breakdown in my recycled soil and help keep my cloner clean but now that Im starting to think more and more organicaly Im thinking that the actual benifit of it is going to explode in a more organic soil.

    Since it was supposed to be helping microlife carry out important functions in the soil anyways Im thinking since my microheard should be infinitly bigger then it was when I was pouring mass chems on it that I should probably start using less of it and I should see an improvement in its action over time.

    Am I crazy or will anything that I used to use to "increase microbial activity" work better in an organic enviroment?

    If thats the case Im about to cut my usage of a few things in half since it would seem I really would not need to be using the kind of volume that a more dead chemy soil would need to have much effect.

  2. I think the short answer to your question is yes. For example, mycorrhizae are typically recommened to apply only twice in a grow; once from seedling to plant stage and once following transplant or at flowering stage. Others, many manufacturers, recommend using mycorrs more frequently and others will debate less... it never ends. But again, yes, the short answer is you would need to use less and less frequently.

  3. And expect it to work better? I like where this is going.
  4. Yes, absolutely. I've only read anectdotal material on hygrozyme but it reads like it's a good product. So, if you have some and want to use it in your organic soiless medium do so. If you don't have any don't rush out to buy it. There are numerous methods to produce your own fresh bacterial and fungal concentrates as well as discussion on enzymes, amino acids, et al. right here in this forum. All good material really.

    And, you might know already that use of any or all of a synthetic source of nutrients is NOT going to completely destroy soil microbial life but it sure isn't healthy to combine the two methods and it's quite contrary to do so; i.e. don't use synthetic nutrients in an all organic soiless medium built around an active soil biology.

    If you've got 'organic' product you were using in a hydro setup and are quite invested in those products and are desiring to switch to soiless/peat based mediums you should examine it closely to determine it's realtive toxcity to 'life' in general. Chances are excellent that if the nutrient is sourced from organic mediums it will be safe to use in soil. I'm not saying you should do this, I'm just saying you might be able to use it.

    Did I miss the point?
  5. Hygrozyme = lactobacillus bacteria strains with malted barley extract.

    Lactobacillus cultures contain high levels of enzymes and by adding the malted barley extract the enzyme/amino acid levels shoot way up.

    Here's how you can test my post: take 2 oz. of Hygrozyme, 2 oz. of a carbohydrate (molasses if nothing else) and 20 oz. of water. Mix and put it into an empty 2-liter soft drink bottle which will allow for the fermenting gasses to be released.

    Take the mix down to < 3.2 pH - viola! A whole new batch of Hygrozyme with the same levels of lacto cultures, amino acids, enzymes, etc. as the original product.

    If you were to buy EM-1 (or any of the EM flavors like SCD Bio Ag) you'll spend about the same for a gallon of this product vs. 1 liter of Hygrozyme.

    Malted barley extracts and powders are easily sources at home-brewing shops. Go for the lightest malts available as these contain higher enzyme levels than the dark malted barley products.


  6. #6 DankSeeker, Dec 3, 2010
    Last edited by a moderator: Dec 3, 2010
    Lumperdawg, I'm relatively new to organic growing as well, so please excuse my limited knowledge. I'm continuously researching on how to grow a good bud and as my direction has headed me into EM wrangling, I've come across your vast knowledge on the subject many a time, but I have a couple questions on EM-1:
    Exactly what is EM-1? I know it's an Effective MicroOrganism, but is this particular type, EM-1 more beneficial, and if so why. Is there a specific EM or group of bacteria that can only be seeded from this EM-1, or is there a way to produce these EM without an EM-1 starter?
    I've done a Lacto Bacilli culture and a banana/carrot wine, (lol).
    Next, I'm going to do a ginger and garlic wine.
    Also, going to be doing a compost bin with some red wigglers.
  7. See if this process is something that you're interested in re-creating.

    Let me know.

  8. This is the article that I have started the couple cultures I have and have applied them. They are now in cold storage for future use.
    Is Lacto Bacilli EM-1?
  9. Yes it is. EM-1 (or whatever specific name you happen to buy) is a combination of about 11 lactobacillus strains and a couple of the photosynthesis bacteria strains (i.e. PNSB = Purple Non-Sulphur Bacteria) and a host of enzymes/amino acids.


  10. Thanks alot, because you have really cleared this up. So I am on the right track in just culturing my own stuff? I like cheap and the recycle bug is bitting as well.
    Can I get your opinion on this?
  11. BIM/FPE made with 'home grown' microbes will out perform any/all EM-1 concoctions - it's not even close.

    You're on the right track.

    Currently I'm finishing up my winter amendments which include the following:

    Horsetail ferns - INSTANT silica, potassium & phosphorus and the entire range of micro-nutrients

    Sprouted Barley Seed FPE - enzymes, enzymes, enzymes as well as high profiles in silica, phosphorus and potassium

    Stinging nettle & comfrey - the entire range of NPK and micronutrients, saponins, et al.

    Lavender, ginger, basil & kelp - insecticide & fungicide. Off the charts.

    Alfalfa sprouts - goes without saying

    Dried aloe vera leaf extract - 1 gm of this product is equal to 3.5 kilos of the actual leaf. Loaded with saponins, amino acids, Salicylic acid (the whole SAR paradigm), etc.

    These fermented 'nutes' will carry me through this winter until the spring when I/we can harvest new plants for fermenting.


  12. #12 DankSeeker, Dec 3, 2010
    Last edited by a moderator: Dec 3, 2010

    Does the ferment process use this general formula: 1/3 material-1/3 RO water-1/3 carb and allow to cook to 3.4 ph?
    Is the application rate pretty much same, 2 tbs per gal RO water?
  13. I use the standard AEM recipe - 20-2-2 (i.e. 20 oz. water, 2 oz. EM-1 (or your homegrown lacto serum) and 2 oz. of a carbohydrate.

    This needs to ferment down to <3.5 pH with 3.2 pH being the ultimate goal.

    If you add plant material at the beginning of the fermentation process you now will have a FPE (Fermented Plant Extract) and I go with 1 - 1.5 oz. of the fermented solution to 1 gallon of water. This is a 'uber safe' rate for use as both a foliar application as well as a soil soak.


  14. #14 DankSeeker, Dec 3, 2010
    Last edited by a moderator: Dec 3, 2010

    So my homegrown lacto serum feeds on various plant materials and essentially craps out specific benefits as you've described?
    I followed the recipe in the linked article and went 1 week rice wash/ and 1 week 10/1 milk added.
    I skimmed the top stuff and added 1 teaspoon/ qt. RO water for soil soak. Didn't foliar spray as my plant is in flower.
  15. #15 LumperDawgz, Dec 3, 2010
    Last edited by a moderator: Dec 3, 2010

    Big time.

    The only 'bottled nutes' that I buy and use are limited to fish hydrolysate, kelp hydrolysate and liquid silica (specifically Dyna-Gro Pro-TeKt)

    That's it. Everything else is based on biodynamic processes (for the most part) which is based on Rudolph Steiner's work in the 1920's in Germany as well as Masanobu Fukuoka's work in his tome "The One Straw Revolution"

    Both Steiner and Fukuoka's writings are well worth your time in sourcing and reading. 2 of the brightest men in the area of sustainable agriculture in the 20th Century.


  16. #16 DankSeeker, Dec 3, 2010
    Last edited by a moderator: Dec 3, 2010

    Yessir, been stalking you, sir. These 'bottled' nutes are on my list to buy.
    What about mycorrhizae? I know they're beneficial root fungi.
    I have a great deal of lit, and both men are included.
  17. DankSeeker

    Heh - you'll probably be pissed after reading this post - LOL

    1. The application/inoculation of specific endomycorhizae strains is an important process assuming that one is using viable strains - i.e. specific strains.

    2. The vast and overwhelming number of products claiming to be 'beneficial' are in fact pure crap. Period. I can count on a single hand the number of companies that offer viable strains. Actually less than a single hand - like 2 fingers.

    3. Early inoculation of these strains is paramount to have a credible/measurable affect.

    4. It takes a MINIMUM of 4 weeks for the inoculation of the endo strains to manifest themselves to the point where it can be measured with a microscope. And even then it takes a trained soil biologist to pin-point the specific strains applied.

    Buy correctly. Do your research. Reap the benefits.


  18. #18 DankSeeker, Dec 3, 2010
    Last edited by a moderator: Dec 3, 2010

    I do have the time for the research as I'm medically retired, but a link in the right direction would be greatly appreciated.
    I plan on continous soil use and basically recycle it. I'm spending a lot of time creating a 'living soil', just makes sense to recycle it through the worm bin as it can only make it better, correct?
    Will the mycorhizae remain in the soil and thrive when the next plant is placed in it. Can it survive a worm bin and thrive when used or do they need to be reapplied at the beginning of each grow? A spore is a spore, right? Don't they become dormant until the right conditions present themselves to thrive?

  19. I'm catching what your tossing.
    The source of my pondering IS that I have a pretty large tool chest of leftover chems and don't want to throw out my baby with the bathwater. Most of it is obvious but allot of my stuff while not necessarily organic is based around the idea of keeping the mycorrhiza happy and the normal soil process active so I'm hoping all of this is going to make the transition to a more sustainable medium culture much easier and successful for me.

    Also I am full soil, was always too scared of massive failer to go hydro ever. I prefer solid mediums and individual care over reservoirs and auto feeding. At one pont I started to calculate how much nutrients I would be using monthly if I did go to hydro with weekly res changes based on my normal usage and the numbers where staggering to me. Such a waste literaly and in terms of polution.

    -"examine it closely to determine it's realtive toxcity to 'life' " - What would be a good way to figure that given everyone uses their "secret formulas" and do their damn best NOT to list what the hell is actually in them or where it came from?
  20. same question.

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