Hybrid x Hybrid pollination

Hey guys, so I've recently studied a little in the field of cannabis breeding. As so far I've always had males and haven't quite had the resources to breed.(no female) Long story short I have two Blue Mystic plants going right now and am hoping one will be a pistallate plant. If both are then great, but if I get a staminate plant, I thought about practicing a controlled pollination. That is if I have the fortutiy to obtain a pair of opposite sex.

So my question will pertain to this, I recently ran by a paragraph in a section discussing cannabis seed selection. It said that a PURE STRAIN is created from 2 plants of the same origin being crossed. That also a HYBRID STRAIN is produced by 2 pure plants of different origin crossing. That's easily conceivable, and makes complete sense.

Now for the question, but the strain I am growing is a hybrid of 2 or more strains together probably landing somewhere on Grade 5. This would make it a hybrid vs hybrid pollination. If I've understood correctly, apparently that is taboo and may result in downgrading the genetics of the seeds conceived. So, should I go for it anyways and see what happens?

I have no prior experience so that's why I am asking. Of course I'll try to do it as carefully as possible even if it means cutting clones, destroying the staminate plant and then letting the clones veg, to the start a controlled pollination. That way I would have a mother plant in a different location that isn't affected by the experiment and keeps her viable gene pool. Without possible degradation of her phenotype as well.


J Evergreen

 

Okay, so no takers? Figured that would happen. I am more concerned with the fact that I don't know which strain was what in the fertilization process. As a matter of fact all I know is one has to be of Blueberry origin and even then theres no way to truly be certain. It's all guess work from the strain info, sadly couldn't acquire a breeder name.

My point being that if I don't know what strain came from what, I don't know how many were envolved in the breeding, and I don't even know where to find the information, then if I decided to do a controlled pollination, the results could be a multitude of different sorts. With many possibilitys in its F1 seeds. Considering the fact that if it's already a hybrid, the chances of it having both dominant and recessive traits is higher. Which even if not, the F2 breed could then give me a few answers on what all strains possibly could be into play? Or am I misunderstanding the genetic breakdown through the breeding process.

We'll also assume these are classified as either grade #5 or grade #6 as far as I'm concerned. The actual breeder may have had a better idea. Any thorough vetting of my post will be greatly appreciated and maybe if some clarification could be made, that would be helpful as well.

@Growtogrow I've seen your thread about Frankenstein Breeding, care to join in and spill some knowledge with me here? Thanks in advance.

J Evergreen

 

The farther I read, the more I dig up. Going down the worm hole can prove exhausting.

Alright so as I stated before hand, the F1 population will result in possible recombinations of the Parent plants. Giving me a chance to see a phenotype or two. I could then do a breed for an F2 population, which would cause an even more diverse populous right? Thus resulting in hopefully finding more recombinations that could possible breed true for different characteristics. Resulting in a new form of the strain. Mostly by either dominate traits not showing or the unmasking of recessive traits.

So this brings me to the assumption, the strain I am already growing would be considered the F1. My diversity pool is broken and scattered because the few I did grow before were males and I didn't document and save. Instead I destroyed. Fuck me. I am now one step forward and 2 steps back. My main question still remains, will it be worth the pollination and what can become of it? Only time will tell.

I'll keep you guys updated on the sex of my current set and if again I am lucky enough to get the opposing sex set, I will then put these theories to hands on use. Excitement is all I can say for my first breeding experiment.

Please bare with me on all of the correct and incorrect assertions of information in my previous and future posts. I am re-learning several bits I never quite attempted to understand in school. Not to mention digging deep and figuring them out as I go along. I should have held my tongue until my research was fully conducted but I was to antsy to hold back. I still have many a book to read.

As most of us know, when you get to hands on learning, you start to grasp a better idea of the knowledge you read. Perspective is a great equalizer. Maybe I'll soon get some.

J Evergreen

 

Much appreciated brother and I understand. Time is a very valuable concept and only so much of it can be used. Usually to the accord of the more important issues at hand. I'll be glad to hear back from you in the future. Until then, I'll be studying haha. Good luck with what ever it is you are doing. Peace be with you.

J Evergreen

 

What's up there @Growtogrow.

Sorry I've been super busy today. Just got enough time to get on and see your post.

So I've read what you said and can gather some information to help me see what really goes on behind the scenes. Thank you for that and before I talk about my situation, I'd like to ask a question or two about yours

• So you said you have one male hopefully? You don't plan on acquiring more than one for the first pollination process? I only ask because with several males you might be able to pass differing genetics on to your new strain. Which of course you'll probably see if you decide to make an F2 generation anyways. The difference being the health and vigor of the plant and certain genes passing from father to offspring.
• Assuming the friends will keep you update and you guys might trade back and fourth if you see something you like?

Trust me I have many more questions but I am trying to lay down a foundation of information before I ask them haha. Would hate to confuse us both. I may get back to you in a few days about the specific manner of your experiment and see if I can't scratch the surface a little to bring out different ideas for you to try.

Now regarding my situation... right now I have 2 Blue Mystic plants going in veg. Of which are part of my last imported stock. With the exception of a 2 OGK seeds if I'm not mistaken. What I first intend to do with theses Blue mystic plants if I get the right combination of sex(Male + Female) is to inbreed them, giving way to an F2 generation. One which should result in many offspring with different recombinations of genes across the board. Some dominant, some recessive, and some heterozygous(mixture).

This should give me an idea of what plants I have to work with and what favorable traits I can save. As well as what plants I can disregard. This will set up a Breeding stock of plants I can choose the best of like for example a fast growing, blueberry smelling plant with thick broad leaves. Or a vigorous skunk smelling plant which is tall and matures quickly. Or any recombination of several traits. From this I will keep several offspring and their seed stock to make a stable viable collection. As well as continue some expierments on the remaining to gain more knowledge and experience.

I then plan to do the same with the OGK seeds I have left. Finding superior traits in several plants and backcrossing them into each other if I get a breeding pair.(Male + Female)

If I do not, I will simply cross breed a few Blue Mystic plants with which ever sex of OGK plant I get. Thus Hybridizing two seperate strains into one. Making my first true cross. From there I plan on bringing about an F2 population and finding the best plants these strains have to offer. Resulting in a new line of seed and plant domination. One in which isn't just entirely one strain.

From what I've dealt with so far, these plants don't differ much in growth pattern. Stocky broad leaf indicas with short internode distances and radial leaf patterns. I've only went through a few though so by no means have I seen all variations. Some may have more experience and may be more familiar with different characteristics.

What do you think so far? Can you determine anything from the path I am planning to follow and does it seem suitable? Also do you have any recommendations on what I should and shouldnt do with. Espically if youve already done this and found something doesn't quiet work as well as it should.

I started this without much of a goal. Was just going to do a contolled pollination on a few branches and see what happened. Figured I'd read into what I was going to do though because that's just the type of person I am, and now I'm slowly gaining a working knowledge of certain things. This stuff would take years to learn and I'm just getting started. Excited but understandably patient. There's a long road ahead of me which has many twists and turns. Hoping I make the right move at each forking path. I appreciate your insight already and just know I thank you for all information I'll receive in the future.

Sincerely, J Evergreen

 

Yes very helpful, and you nailed it with the idea behind time. That is one of my biggest drawbacks. I have time but it's going to take quite some while. I'd say 3-4 years if even that soon. It all really just depends on the sex these plants and the space I can acquire to do so.

See my main problem is that I won't be able to grow out hundreds of offspring at once. Which is a major set back when it comes to finding and separating different varieties. I'll more or less end up with repetitive plants over and over for a duration of time before I get into the true keepers. Resulting in a length of stagnation, loss for effort, and consumption of resources(water,light,soil).

As far as your idea on the controlled pollination, here's an excerpt from a recent book I read. It may provide helpful,

• START

"
Now a pistillate plant is chosen as the seed parent. A pistillate flower cluster is ripe for fertilization so long as pale, slender pistils emerge from the calyxes. Withered, dark pistils protruding from swollen, resin encrusted calyxes are a sign that the reproductive peak has long passed. Cannabis plants can be successfully pollinated as soon as the first primordia show pistils and until just before harvest, but the largest yield of uniform, healthy seeds is achieved by pollinating in the peak floral stage. At this time, the seed plant is covered with thick clusters of white pistils. Few pistils are brown and withered, and resin production has just begun. This is the most receptive time for fertilization, still early in the seed plant’s life, with plenty of time remaining for the seeds to mature. Healthy, well flowered lower limbs on the shaded side of the plant are selected. Shaded buds will not heat up in the bags as much as buds in the hot sun, and this will help
protect the sensitive pistils. When possible, two terminal clusters of pistillate flowers are chosen for each pollen bag. In this way, with two pollen bags for each seed parent and two clusters of pistillate flowers for each bag, there are four opportunities to perform the cross successfully. Remember that production of viable seed requires successful pollination, fertilization and embryo development. Since interfering with any part of this cycle precludes seed development, fertilization failure is guarded against by duplicating all steps.

Before the pollen bags are used, the seed parent information is added to the pollen parent data. Included is the number of the seed parent, the date of pollination, and any comments about the phenotypes of both parents. Also, for each of the selected pistillate clusters, a tag containing the same information is made and secured to the limb below the closure of the bag. A warm, windless evening is chosen for pollination so the pollen tube has time to grow before sunrise. After removing most of the shade leaves from the tips of the limbs to be pollinated, the pollen is tapped away from the mouth of the bag. The bag is then carefully opened and slipped over two inverted limb tips, taking care not to release any pollen, and tied securely with an expandable band. The bag is shaken vigorously, so the pollen will be evenly dispersed throughout the bag, facilitating complete pollination. Fresh bags are sometimes used, either charged with pollen prior to being placed over the limb tip, or injected with pollen, using a large syringe or atomizer, after the bag is placed. However, the risk of accidental pollination with injection is higher.

If only a small quantity of pollen is available it may be used more sparingly by diluting with a neutral powder such as flour before it is used. When pure pollen is used, many pollen grains may land on each pistil when only one is needed for fertilization. Diluted pollen will go further and still produce high fertilization rates. Diluting 1 part pollen with 10 to 100 parts flour is common. Powdered fungicides can also be used since this helps retard the growth of molds in the maturing, seeded, floral clusters.

The bags may remain on the seed parent for sometime; seeds usually begin to develop within a few days, buttheir development will be retarded by the bags. The propagator waits three full sunny days, then carefully removes and sterilizes or destroys the bags. This way there is little chance of stray pollination. Any viable pollen that failed to pollinate the seed parent will germinate in the warm moist bag and die within three days, along with many of the unpollinated pistils. In particularly cool or overcast conditions a week may be necessary, but the bag is removed at the earliest safe time to ensure proper seed development without stray pollinations. As soon as the bag is removed, the calyxes begin to swell with seed, indicating successful fertilization. Seed parents then need good irrigation or development will be retarded, resulting in small, immature, and nonviable seeds. Seeds develop fastest in
warm weather and take usually from two to four weeks to mature completely. In cold weather seeds may take up to two months to mature. If seeds get wet in fall rains, they may sprout. Seeds are removed when the calyx begins to dry up and the dark shiny perianth (seed coat) can be seen protruding from the drying calyx. Seeds are labeled and stored in a cool, dark, dry place, This is the method employed by breeders to create seeds of known parentage used to study and improve Cannabis genetics. "

• STOP

Good luck with your contolled pollination process. I'll be joining you in a few weeks if all goes as planned. I'm going to sub to your thread and stay observant. I will have more questions when I actually get into the hands on work of breeding. Fingers crossed for a sex reveal in the next coming 2-3weeks. From there we shall return to cross examination of each other's knowledge and process.

If you would like. I may add pictures of the steps taking to this thread. You may do the same. I think if anything someone somewhere might can gain some insight from the examples. See you on the sunny side my friend. It's damn near spring weather here, things are about to get moving.

Peace!

J Evergreen

 

Welcome, glad to see you here. Make sure your chair is comfy. This session is going to be a long one. Breeding is far beyond the simplistic imagination I attached to it. So many moving parts.

Man if only you had one male Lemon or Strawberry plant, could have possibly made some Starburst Kush.

J Evergreen

 

Haha yeah I wish I would have spent the money on Fem seeds but I've learned an okay but minuet amount through regular photos. Specifically sexing. I've had all males so far.

J Evergreen

 

@Growtogrow @Gruntgrower

Hey guys, long time no see. I come today baring exciting news. It appears I've been blessed with a 1:1 ration. I have my set of parents.

As for my pistillate plant, it smells of Blueberrys, grows well, and tends to stay healthy with the right soil ph.

My staminate plant is a bigger, skunk toned plant with a little more resistance to differing nuisances.

I plan on separating them, gathering pollen from the staminate plant when he is ripe, and then covering 2 limbes on the pistillate plant for 3 days. She should swell with seed and hopefully I can gather a few batches. I am super excited.

As far as I know, this will give rise to the F2 generation considering these two plants are from the same seed stock(F1's already). This should ensure a variety of phenotypes in the next offspring. Maybe even making it apparent on who it's real parents are. A little nervous but most definitely ready.

See you guys in a couple of weeks, I'll be staying posted. Next time with pictures of the process, and countiuneing until I've arrived to a seed bearing entity. Now is the time to get some propositions if you've got em.

J Evergreen