We don't think about our naturally inticed body funtions much. Crying is something so elementary, that babies do it just instants into life. Any given stimulus can cause an adult to cry. But why? What is it in your brain that makes you cry at a dumb movie, and another not cry at a relatives death?? It is too easy to just say that this lobe in the brain is responsible for emotion and crying. What would be more interesting is if an individual had a defect in that part of their brain.... causing them to cry from inappropriate stimuli. Isn't it interesting that something so in depth and complicated as the human brain can work with something so minute as a tear duct?? It intirgues me to think that our brains have evolved so far from the primordial goo that it can tell our ducts that our eyes are dry, or that we are devestated. The same reaction to two entirely different stimuli. Wind. Death. Cigarette smoke. Joy. In fact, there are 3 types of tears. Basal tears are what kep our eye lubricated all the time.... 'Reflex' tears are produced when the eye is irritated...like cigarette smoke..... and the third is produced in response to emotional stimuli. You can cry due to outside, or inner stimuli. For instance.... you father dies. Outside stimuli. Or, you take some boomers and realize your life sucks.... inner stimuli. What intrests me is why one person will cry over one thing, and another person won't. There can be many reasons... culture, desensitivity (is that a word?), outside pressures, the way one was raised, peer pressure, or even sexual orientation. Even further, what makes crying acceptable in certain circumstances?? It is acceptable for an infant to cry in public because it wants something. It is not acceptable for a 13 year old to cry in public because he wants something. It is acceptable, and often expected, for one to cry over a loved one's death. It is acceptable for one to cry 'tears of joy' over the birth of a child. However, it is not acceptable to cry because Stop and Shop is out of Fiber One bars. These cultural rules are just that... cultural. Or further, human. Like any form of social behavior, views on crying, and displays of emotion in general, must have changed over time and distance. We are often viewed as a superior species. Maybe that is true... in a Darwinian sense. In my opinion, it was the evolutionary card we were dealt. The unfortold and unforseen circumstances that directed us though the maze of our own evolution just so happened to rbing us to a point where one man learned to make tools. The mutation in that one man's genes could have easily made him something different. Lucky for us, the mutation gave him curiosity. The curiosity he needed to solve problems. Before cro-magnum man, and before all the different homo species, a different species was most likely the superior species. Perhaps that species was better suited for life on earth at that time. If the cards were dealt differently, whos to say that the Raven wouldn't be the superior species. The Common Raven is the smartest bird living. It has well over 200 different vocalizations. Do you think that humans could, without the ability to speak, come up with 200 different vocalizatinos in order to communicate with other humans?? That is a tough question. Most of you would automatically say yes... probably just because you have been led to believe we are the smartest and superior species. Which may be true.... but, takt into account our human nature. Imagine yourself... everything about you is the same, except you lack the ability to speak. You can only make noises. Now, imagine another person there with you. A stranger. Everything about him is the same, except he can't speak either. Now.... think about how you, personally interact with strangers on a day-to-day basis. Now try an communicate the things that are important to life, without speaking. Not as easy as one would think, huh? You would have to figure out how to hunt, get water, procreate, find and/or build shelter, etc.... At this time in earths existance, all of the species on our planet are specialists in what THEY need to survive. In my opinion, our evoltionary path has made us everything but the superior species. Just because we created technology doesn't mean shit. Take everything away and 97.6% of the worlds population would be fucked. And all those inferior animals would just continue as if nothing happened.... living and surviving by employing instincts and learned behavior that has been honed over millions of years. I bet most people didn't know that mammals and birds cry too, did ya?? Not a tear to lubricate their eye.... tears that were drawn out by external stimuli. Who knows... maybe even internal. We don't know what/how/why or in what context other species think. Other mammals feel emotion and negative reactions as a direct result. One example that many would over look is the bond that forms between pets. Here are 2 personal examples: 1) I have kept small birds as pets for a few years. I built them a fly-cage that is 5' wide X 4' tall X 6' deep. Right after I built that, I only had 2 pairs of birds in there. (By pair I mean male and female). One pair of Zebra finches and one pair of Society finches. One day when I was cleaning the enclosure and changing the medium/water/food, a couple birds flew out. Now, I quite often let them out on purpose because they enjoy flying around the room and perching on my Christmas lights. Only I do that when I know my cats aren't downstairs too. But this time, while cleaning the enclosure, one of my cats was downstairs. One bird flew out and sure enough, my cat jumped uop and caught it and began pouncing it. I stopped him before he could kill the bird, and it seemed as if the bird would survive. I put her back into the cage. At that time, she and her mate had just bred, liad eggs, and they were now taking turns incubating the eggs. I could see a small cut under her wing, and she was missing a couple feathers. If anyone knows anything abuot birds, most any cut or break usually means death. Unless you can afford vet bills. I loved the bird, but it only cost $20.... it would have costed me well over $100 to fix her up. So, I did my best to take extra care of her and let nature take it's course. About a week later, she became very lethargic and began the process of dieing. While this was going on, it was clear that the male was somewhat distraught. Up until then, the female had done 70+ percent of the incubating, and now she just hung out quietly on the floor of the cage. The male would jump down next to her and start preening her.... a sing of affection and bonding in birds. Over the next day and a half or so, the male seemed to be guarding the female and doing everything he could to make her feel better. Suddenly, he began making a call I hadn't heard until then. A single note that sounded distressing. I check, and she was still alive... but barely. The male then got quiet and nothing happened for about 4 hours. Then, the male let out one loud single call... I went over to the cage, and the female had died. The male let out a call of grief the second his mate died. The next week or so after her death, the male was obviously distraught. He barely ate and was not very active at all. Usually, they give me a hard time when I try to catch them for nail trimming or for transportation or whatever. During this time, he just jumped away once and let me pick him up like nothing. He was clearly greiving. 2) I have had at least 3+ cats at a time since I was a wee one. A few years ago one fo them had to be put down. At the time I had 4... 2 were not related or close in age, and the other 2 were brother and sister from the same litter. The one that had to be put down had feline lukemia...she was only 2 and one of the siblings. Ever since the day I brought his sister to the vet, Onyx has never been the same. And for the month or so right afterwards. he would just lay under the couch for hours at a time. He wouldn't eat at meal time with the other cats... we though he wasn't eating at all. Until I went to the bathroom in the middle of the night and I saw he was eating then. Bear cubs cry when they are away from their mothers. Scientists and hunter both say the call sounds like a human (doens't mean anything what it sounds like). When donkeys cry they actually release tears and their lips quiver. Baby monkeys cry out when they are hungry or want their mother. Dogs can become chronically depressed...usually from a situation like my cats went through. I forgot where I read this, but it makes sense (paraphrasing here). If mammals and birds have feelings of love, motherhood, pain, possesivness over territory or another individual, or general caring (which they do)... why wouldn't they also feel depressions, loss, anger, mistrust, and fear. It is this that shrinks the gap between us 'superior' humans and all the other inferior species 'below' us. (This rant has was produced with MoJo)
I thought about that. It's hard to imagine how you would "think" if you didn't have a language. How could you communicate with yourself, to know what your own wants and needs are? If you don't have a language, couldn't speak, and never heard anyone else speak, then you wouldn't even have a voice inside your head. It'd be silent.
it's so interesting that you put this up here. I was thinking about it myself a lot recently. If the world literally turned upside down and everything went to shit, the only things that are REALLY well prepared and ready for things are the animals. I have two cats, and I just look at all of the neat things that they have going for them: - Intelligence (gives them curiosity) - Retractable Razor Sharp Claws on all feet - Agility to climb trees, jump long distances, pounce etc. - A Tail to balance with - Superior smell - Ears that can be directed in a certain manner to better listen in on something in particular - Sharp teeth for eating almost anything - Hair to keep them warm - Whiskers to let them know if they can fit in an area - Superior eye sight / Night vision - Only takes around 6 mo - 1 yr to be mature enough to be on their own. - Legs built like spring boards - can communicate through vocal noises I had this discussion with my dad and told him these things, and his only thing was well we have the best thing of all a powerful brain, but I say that it's good and bad. As good as it is for creating, it's as good for destroying. As far as I know, the species of the planet all are able to more or less balance each other out in one way or another, while we will continualy destroy around us unless we take action not to. I guess I just find that Animals are much more well suited to the outside environment around them than people are. It actually still amazes me to this day, how in the world humans ever survived.
Well I know that, but what I'm saying is that compared to what animals have, and assuming we evolved as they think we have, it's amazing that between some genetic mutation in there, that we didn't die off. Lets face it, man didn't have tools and spears and fire from the get go.
I think crying is our minds response to to much stress or pressure. When an infant wants something an doesn't get it, the infant probably can't think past that one thing it wants and thus seeing no way to get it starts crying thinking it's hopeless and he will never get that. Thats my theory Yeah dude my cat did the same thing when it's sister died. It would just lay under my bed and pull its fur out.
and as you saw from the lady who got her entire face ripped off and hands as well, primates have leverage in their body that makes them like 6x stronger than us. All i'm saying is I find it interesting.
I just think that the notion that humans would be nothing if our technology was suddenly taken away, is deceiving.. I mean, technology is a part of us. We need technology, that's obvious. Without it, animals might be able to dominate over us, and we would no longer be at the top of the food chain. But, the same can apply to other animals as well. Take the bird's wings away, and it's nothing. Take a moles nails away, and it's nothing. Take a fish's fins away, and it's nothing. But when no animal is missing anything, when humans aren't missing technology, and animals aren't missing their instincts and physical advantage, humans are still dominant, and rightfully so.
Just because the cat isn't a human does not mean that he/she does not have a gender. They are beings too. They have a soul, they have a spirit, just a different form of a body.
Wow you realy think i don't realize animals have genders. I said it's (refering to the cat) sister, so obvoulsy that cat had a female gender. I don't believe in that soul nonsense tho.
The scientific term is consciousness. They have a consciousness, they have a mind, they have a personality.
I don't believe animals have souls, nor do I believe humans do. Brains of all creatures are highly complex and capable of wonderous... complexity! Including personality and creativity for example... simply feats of intelligence, not the products of a soul imo. I wouldn't get hung up on the idea of a soul though because of all the extraneous garbage attached to it - the idea of an afterlife for example which there has never been nor likely will ever be evidence of. Creatures cry perhaps because they have a kind of raw emotional reaction. I don't disagree that animals probably have what you might call "emotion". I don't think that that emotion is anything like a humans and it's probably wrong to compare it to or talk about it as though we have it in common. Because we have the active intellect to add reason and meaning to our emotion, whereas animals may only understand things very simplistically and probably via a different mental mechanism entirely, one which we cannot relate to. Only the the very smartest animals have basic forms of reason. I think it's wrong to assume that animals are in many ways human-like or have human-like emotions or understandings. I think that the relationships people have with their pets for example are very one-sided as far as understanding goes. The animal just doesn't understand or comprehend the same things the person does. Their needs are much more basic. I just think we give our animals and pets human-like attributes and qualities that they just don't have for our own reasons which may or may not be selfish.
I actually have a personal experience with that. My uncle Ronald, my father's brother, was born deaf and dumb and paralyzed frm the waste down. In my father's family there was my dad, his brother (another one), his sister, mom and dad, his brother in law and his sister's/brother in law's 2 kids. My unlce (Ronald) was the first born. For a time, it was just he and my grandparents. I bet there was a time when he didn't even realize what speaking or communicating was.... until 3 siblings came along and the house became a bed and breakfast (not really). My uncle and my grandmother were both amazing humans. My uncle because of his sheer will to live as 'normal' (I hate that fucking word) as he could.... and my grandmother for how she took care of the whole family and helped my uncle learn to communicate. My grammie and uncle Ronald would sit at the kitchen table and my uncle would hold my grammie's neck to feel the vibrations when she spoke. He, like most deaf and dumb, could make noises... he just couldn't hear how they were supposed to sound. So, my grammie would say a word with my uncle feeling the vibrations in her throat, then he would feel his own and attempt to make the same 'feeling'. After 4-5 years, he could talk. There was lip reading and sign language learned also, so he could completely communicate with anyone. He could read someone's lips, and then answer them. Now that is fucking dedication. What's even cooler is that my uncle Ronald became a pool champion and won medals in the Special Olympics and other competitions. One that wasn't just for handicapped people. All while being deaf, dumb, and in a wheelchair since birth.
HEY!!! That happend two towns away from me. In my opinion, that lady got what she deserved. Why would you take a chimp and keep it in an urban/sub-urban house?? Sure they might be cool for a while.... but they are still wild animals. Same thing with the magician who got mauled by a tiger. ITS A FUCKIN TIGER!!! And, I forget who wrote this but....... taking a birds wings away is completely different than taking technology away from humans. Birds evolved into their wings. We, in a sense, evolved with technology.... and technology evolved with us. But that was caused by humans. Birds evolved into creatures with wings because it best suit their survival needs. A NATURAL selection process. Humans didn't naturally evolve into a species that is 100% dependent on things we 100% don't need. Well, maybe 98% of our species...there are still plenty of tribes that live off the land 100%. Take the wings off a bird and it is no longer a bird. Take a fish's fins away and it isn't a fish. Take technology away from humans and we are still humans. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Yes, animals have reasoning abilities. A friend of mine keeps track of all the Ravens nesting on a stretch of 'virgin' (as virgin as a forest can be in Connecticut) forest in upstate Connecticut. Included in his studies were experiments with the Raven.... like I said earlier, the worlds smartest bird. An adult Raven was put into a room/cage with nothing but a high perch in the middle. Attached to the perch was a string, and tied to the bottom of the string was a piece of food. Now, there were a few options for the bird to attempt to get the food.... he could have flown and tried to take the food on the wing.... he could have jumped to the ground and jumped up to get the food... etc... What he did was look. He looked at the perch, at the string, at the food, at the string, at the food again. Eventually, (I think he said 6-7 minutes) the Raven grabbed the string with one foot and pulled it up.... he then grabbed further down the string with his beak and pulled it up further.... then he grabbed further down again with his foot... and so forth. He did this until he had the food in his claws and could eat it at his leisure on the perch. There were ZERO attempts before that. No trail and error. The bird took in it's surroundings, thought out a process of solving the problem, and effectively put his plan into motion. To me, that is cool as shit. In addition, humans are not the only species who use tools. Certain species of monkey and ape use sticks to poke into termite/ant mounds to get them out. Tehy also use sticks to scratch their backs. Certain species of parrot use sticks as drumsticks to get a mate's attention, and more interesting.... to hear if a tree is hollow and worthy for his nest. The parrot will smack the tree trunk with his stick and listen to the sound. Otters use rocks to break into sea urchins. We've all seen how cute it is when they lay on their back with a rock on their belly and then they smash their food on the rock. Going further, the otter takes time in selecting it's rock. It will discard several before choosing one.... then, if the rock worked well, it will keep it and use it later. Not just later in the day either. One species of Bird of Paradise uses a stick to clear off his dance floor. He will even use it to scrape shit off of the branches around his dance floor. The Green Heron will take a small piece of wood, stone, grass, etc... and drops it onto the surface of the water. His goal is to use the whatever as bait to attract his prey fish to the surface. Then all he has to do is jab his beak down. Similar to some primates, the Woodpecker Finch of the Galapagos uses a a small stick or poker, such as a cactus thorn, to poke for and pull grubs out of wood. Once a grub is obtained, he will put the thorn in his foot and take it with him for later use. A species of vulture in Africa uses rocks to smash open eggs that are too hard and strong for their beaks to open. The link below is a video of a Crow making ans using a tool. [ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xwVhrrDvwPM&feature=related"]YouTube - Nature's tools! How birds use them - David Attenborough - BBC wildlife[/ame] The at the bottom is where I got some of the above info. One example given was about a crow. (paraphrasing)... The crow's food needed to be moistened everyday. Apparently, the caregiver would forget from time to time. So, the crow went and found a cup, got water, and moistened it himself. Cool. http://www.pigeon.psy.tufts.edu/psych26/tools.htm
Not sure why the video screen came out in the post. I only pasted the address. If it doesn't work, just click on the video screen and it brings you to a seperate page. It really is worth watching. It shows how, and why these crows are using the tool. It shows that they rely on the grub's temper and tendency to bite when agrivated. The crows know that.... they poke it with their stick, and the grub bites the stick. They then pull out the stick once the grub is attached to it by it's jaws. At the end, it shows an adolescent crow watching and learning how to do the same thing. That is really cool.... these crows didn't just figure this out from nowhere. Well, one individual must have... but they teach their young. Some populations of a certain species know different things that the rest of the population doesn't. Groups of Orcas all have different languages that they can recognize. A population of a certain species of dolphin has learned, and passes down, how to 'beach' themselves in order to drive fish into the shallows. I get so excited and amazed at some of these things that animals do.... but I shouldn't. Just because we can talk and type and fuck for fun doesn't mean we still aren't animals. It makes no sense that we put ourselves on this evolutionary pedestal. Some, in fact many, other creatures are WAY more highly specialized for their particular way of living.