How to bind/make THC honey with BHO?

 
Yeah, the 300+ page "Another Tincture Thread". You don't have to read it all. It has a lot of trash someone told me the other day but I like to think it's entertaining. Of course, he was referring to all the cartoons and videos and songs and all the silly stuff. 
 
Sounds like Pops knows how to handle it. 

 

I feel a little bad for keeping this thread going but a few more observations and questions for the agave elixir since we're already discussing....
 
I made another 2 floz batch today - was watching and stirring the whole time like before, probably stirring a little more - when it was getting down towards the end it got a little weird - I use a glass swizzle stick for stirring, and I noticed that every time I stuck the stick in the bowl, it would 'bubble' right around the stick !?! At first I reasoned that some alcohol was being freed from right around the stick, but this went on for longer than I thought it should take to fully reduce - I had my IR themo reading 175f for the syrup, so I figured that the alcohol should be gone by that point --- there would be no bubbling without the stir stick in the bowl  (none) --- pretty weird, I'm  at a loss for plausible physical explanation other than being close to the syrup boiling point and the stick nucleating bubbles - don't know the BP for agave or sugar mixtures .... It seemed like it binded well, no separation after cooling and bottling.  I was getting concerned by the amount of time it was at ~175-180f - wanting some extra decarbing effect, but not to take it too far....
 
But, that brings up my question --- is there any benefit to making the transfer easier by reducing the GD down before adding the syrup?  Would that help with preventing the separation and speed mixing?  My batch was only 2+2 floz, but I see where this could be helpful for larger batches.
 
I concluded that the 'black bubbles' are actually just chlorophyll laden oil balls that form after a bubble breaks, and it did appear that they liked to form without a solvent/air bubble to start them towards the end, so its just the oils coming out of suspension at that temperature.  Same with the ring of 'tar' around the bowl - I did my best to keep it from forming too thick - and that kept it from being too difficult to redissolve back into the syrup.    I'm thinking that its pretty important to continue stirring as the liquid cools to keep the oils from separating from what I've seen...  Still amazed that a dark green GD can turn into a much lighter elixir.

 

 
Ah, the swizzle stick phenomenon. Yes, that's something that you would see in my RSO video. Once the alcohol starts getting very low it takes more energy to drive the rest out and that's true for agave, honey, coconut oil, the cannabis oil (RSO) and other mediums. What happens is that when the stick, or dropper or nail or whatever you use, concentrates that energy and it drives off the alcohol. It will continue to do so but eventually it will slow down and the bubbles stop. Then you have to remove the stick for a few minutes but when you stick it back into the medium it will start to rapidly bubble again. This is one way you can tell when it's completely purged. You'll notice the same thing when you reduce your GD if you stick the rod in before it actually starts to boil. It's kind of like a superheated liquid in the microwave that looks like it's steady and then you stick a spoon in it and it rapidly boils over. It's science. 
 
The alcohol is not all driven off by the time it reaches 175F. You know it's getting close then but it will go up to 185-190 and still have some residual alcohol. You did peg the agave process correctly and stirring is very critical to getting a good infusion, especially when all the oil is forming and looking like it's just going to sit there. And it is a longer process because of that but I have never had any issues of degradation. The agave will also start foam bubbles like the honey when the process has gone long enough. 
 
For some things I do like to concentrate the GD down further than a 1:1 ratio but when using a potency of 4g/oz, saturation and specific gravity of the medium come into play. Using a less concentrated extract gives more room in those atomic spaces to bond. I know that isn't the scientific lingo and doesn't begin to explain it but my brain isn't taking the right pathway. The more concentrated the GD, the longer it takes mediums like the agave, honey and glycerin to blend, though, which then increases the length of time to heat it. 

 

Good - I  wasn't going crazy...  I presumed it was along the same principle as 'boiling stones' for boiling solvents in chemistry - I know the alcohol wasn't completely purged, but to have that much bubbling happen every time the stir stick was placed in the bowl just didn't make any sense --- there should have been plenty of bubbles without it if there really was that much left - the heated viscosity is really pretty low, so it should release the vapor pretty easily.  I think last time I never left the stir stick in the bowl - this time I was able to prop it up and keep it in the bowl so it just looked like it was still reducing.  I did notice that small circles of clear oil were forming on the surface which made me realize without stirring, it would naturally want to separate at that temperature.  Almost an elegant display of fundamental principles of saturation and solubility limits in action....  I just wasn't expecting the endless bubbling!
 
Edit - I am using the C&H 'light' agave so it all became pretty obvious as it was happening.

 

So just to clarify --- you can consider the transfer complete when the bubbling in the bowl has ceased even though it will continue to bubble with the stir stick?  Maybe a little longer for good measure?  Nice to know what you consider the endpoint... I probably took the batch last night 10-15 minutes past that point.

 

 
You did it just right. Those bubbles with the stick at that point could also be from the agave itself at that temperature. The stick concentrates the heat enough at that temperature to do that. That's the point where it starts to bubble a bit on it's own from the increasing heat as the alcohol dissipates and the light froth begins. Taking it 10-15 minutes beyond that ensures a good infusion and at that temperature, won't harm the contents. Once the oil has dissipated and infused, the alcohol is pretty much gone and that extra 10-15 minutes puts the capper on it.
 
I have to place a disclaimer here, though, but I will endeavor to  fix the issue soon. I have never used the light agave nectar, just the darker ones, because I'm a molasses lover and the darker versions of all sugary products are my preference but it can be really difficult to see when some of the changes occur and the light may not froth the same. With the darker versions good lighting is needed to discern the phases. 
 
Sounds like you've got it pegged. 

 

I haven't noticed any frothing in the two batches that I've made - whats more apparent is the oil separation on the surface as the EC evaps away that may be masked by the dark agave.  Now I'm curious to try the dark agave....

 

 
I believe the frothing is more a byproduct of the darker nectar and is due to the visibility factor. Because the oil dissipation is so hard to distinguish, it's hard to know if it has infused until the amber froth starts appearing. You wouldn't have that issue with the light and would be able to see the infusion as it happened and remove it from the heat before any frothing would appear. 

 

 
For the GD you'll really only want 1g of your BHO per ounce and that should be a sufficient strength to just need a few drops. Those drops will have no alcohol effect at that small quantity. The alcohol is a tremendously bioavailable solvent for most people and just a few drops can be more effective than 3-4 times the amount of a lipid. 
 
Make just a single ounce so you can try it first and play around with it. You can always add more BHO afterwards if you feel it needs more oomph but take it slow and easy.   

 

 
No curing for this. You don't want it too strong for the GD because it's the alcohol that causes the quick absorption and without a sufficient amount some of your extraction won't be absorbed as quickly. 
 
So have you noticed any visual changes in your first batch of glycerin? Or any taste changes, maybe sweeter, less aftertaste? 

 

Hmmm.... by your questioning here, I'm less inclined to want to try glycerin....  Agave for the win!
(I thought about posting up over in BKS's thread, but I showed restraint --- unless you think it would help)
(I read all 330+ pages of the the main thread, I think I've earned the right to have some fun along the way...)
 
More to come later after some cbdzzzzz......

 

 
No, you did right. Restraint there is good. If requested, I prefer links when in someone else's thread if at all possible. Thank you for asking.  B)
 
As for the glycerin questions, those are visual cues for the curing process when it goes from a suspension to a bonded solution. There is usually a distinct change in the opacity of the glycerin and often the color will start to go to amber and it will get sweeter as it cures with less of the bite aftertaste from the BHO in suspension. I was asking for those reasons. I guess the one about the taste isn't a visual cue but you get the point. 

 

 
That's exactly is what is supposed to happen as it cures, it gets sweeter, more like glycerin.
 
You can save it in the fridge. If you were to put it into the freezer then you might get some winterization from the waxes but not the fridge. Room temp is fine but you should keep it dark or in a darker bottle.