How often to use Calmag

Discussion in 'Coco Coir' started by masterlights, Dec 12, 2011.

  1. How often do you guys supplement calmag in your water regimine.
    Ive been using it pretty much with every watering and never going over 1/2 tsp per gallon.
     
  2. Every watering since I use RO
     

  3. In coco it should be stopped in early flower. and just epsom from then on at a small pinch per 5gal. if you use cal mag thru out flower you will end up locking out p among other things. I read somewhere that the plant needs cal at every point of nute entry, so in other words if your in flower ur roots should already be established and the cal bank should be full in the coco"meaning the coco can hold no more cal and start building to toxic levels" so no new cal should be needed after second or third week of flower. I'm sure smsc will chime in if I have said something wrong.
     

  4. good info.how much epsom salt should i use per gallon( a tsp or so???)

    so im guessing that cannabis uses magnesium more throughout the rest of the flower cycle instead of calcium right?

    I use tap water so i think i already have a decent amount of calcium in my tap.its funny you said you can get a P lockout later in flower bc ive actually been getting slight purpling of the stems at about week 4 of flower which could be too much calcium in the medium.
     
  5. #5 colafarmer, Dec 12, 2011
    Last edited by a moderator: Dec 12, 2011
    sage sounds right on...

    I use cal/mag and filtered water every other watering while in veg then cut it off. Have not had to use epsom salt but, a 1/4 tsp per gallon should do if needed.
    Just watch the plant for any signs of deficiencies and add or, cut back as needed

    edit:
    When I used tap I never supplemented but, some mild rust spotting ocured in late flowering.
    With filtered water I use Botanicare cns17 for coco which helps....
     
  6. #6 masterlights, Dec 12, 2011
    Last edited by a moderator: Dec 12, 2011


    So 1/4 tsp of epsom until the last week or so
     
  7. Im also confused as to what to use on my coco grow for cal/mag. Im working with overnight city water for just right now but i have been using R/O i only switched cuz i ran out n have no ride. So like after ph'n the cities water im like at a ppm of 160...i got purple everywhere on my stems but i thought it was from the cold temps at night in the house. Bout 70 degrees at night.

    So i dont have any liquid cal/mag so i have to make do with wt i got. I have both Epsom salt and Garden lime by Espoma Garden Tradition brand....So from what im gathering from the bags is...Epsom salt is all magnesium and Garden Lime is both.

    So should i just use the Garden Lime or both? Its all like pelletized/balls i believe so i was gonna just top dress with like a tsp of GL and maybe a quarter tsp of E to these new pots i just transplanted into..(red solo cups to about a 2quart size pot) Is this right? Or should i just use the garden lime? Or should i be breaking this stuff down in some water and adding to my regular water/feed schedule....a lil confused as to what you do? Hope you blades can help a brotha out Ha.
    And im sorry masterlights for hijackin your thread, i just needed to know this stuff yesterday. let it be known that masterlights still has a question of his own. Thanks.
     
  8. I just talked to my local hydro shop and they actually differ on some areas.
    They said if tomatoes dont get enough calcium and magnesium late in flower they ll actually get stem rot and the tomato will brown.

    They said especially with coco calcium and mag need to be added throughout the flower cycle bc coco is a terrible medium for holding calcium.they said when the coco airs up and dries that the calcium will go from the liquid state to a solid form which would be a salt and wouldnt be able to be uptaked.

    they also said that true, tap water does some calcium and mag, it def doesnt have enough especially for coco.

    And sage said that calcium and mag are pretty much the spoon and fork for the roots to uptake nutes so even if the roots are well established what diff does it make bc they still need calcium to help the plant uptake other nutes,even in weeks after 3 or 4 the plant is uptaking even more nutes to build the buds.

    So i think whats happening in coco is that the coco is drying and calcium is turning to salts over the course of veg and early flowering and the plant starts to get slight P lockout bc of the salt buildup of the calcium.I think the only solution like ive stated in the past is do light flushes over the course of flowering..especially if youve been feeding heavy.
     

  9. you should take a tbl of both crushem and add to 1 liter of ro water shake good and use 2ml to 5ml per gal but start slow. cal mag also has 1ron in it so in mine I added a tbl vitasand reptile substrate which is glorified dolomite lime with vitamin b and c and a few other things like yes iron oxide. but I ruined my first batch by getting to greedy and I tried to get the n also and used molasses. which def upped ppm but went bad in a week.
     
  10. Coco does not have that problem, unless you use it as the sole medium. If you mix compost or EWC in at 20-40% (amend equal perlite) these issues you are speculating on become nil, including flushing, using epsom salt, dolomite lime, or worrying about magnesium.

    I don't like lime and salt because not because it wont work- it definitely will- but just because these are not very fine amendments to supply your plants with nutrient- they are not so available or beneficial in the long run- and there are much finer amendments that cost the same. If you insist on using lime the recommended type is just lime- without the magnesium carbonate. But I haven't used it. I use oyster shell flour- a 50# bag costs around 12.50. available at farm supply or country feed shop.

    One of the blades in organics has done analyses on humic acids and they contain magnesium as one of over 130 elements. Any compost built with the right amendments or plant materials will certainly have it covered. The most you'd need to do is amend your soil with mater magic- something like 5-8-4+7ca at lowe for 5$. additionally most all the 'core' amendments in organics have calcium, magnesium, iron, etc. etc. in their raw/ minimally processed forms of the plant matter,

    So buying compost (aka humus) with a good rep. will have that covered. Unfortunately most is not organic and not much more than carbon with some nitrogen and calcium required to produce the EWC.

    I water with straight tap- most sediment is calcium carbonate- we have lower levels of flouride etc. in the water, it's of little to no concern to me thanks to the EWC. I really hope you'll browse the organic section instead of taking farming advice from hydro sale staff. Also I hope you aren't using potanicares calmag plus. one of the peservatives is a registered pesticide, but then again, which bottled nutrient company would never.
     
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  11. well I'm just letting you know I never let my coco dry and you should not flush until the end. calcium is immobile to the plant and once the the coco has released its available p and is replaced by cal and mag the only thing more cal will do is rise to toxic levels. mj uses more mag in flower then other plants .
     
  12. I'm glad you don't let it dry out. it's also more of a concern for bottled gardening because the medium is more sterile, without the mass of microbes to form a slime when moisture declines.

    toxic levels of calcium? I'm glad you're on the forum, bottled gardening sounds like a lot of trouble. But don't let me deter you! keep up the good work. more Philanthropy for the hydro stores!

    I have a really differnt view about calcium and magnesium than you because i have know idea what ur sayin, coco releasing the P? cal rising to toxic levels? MJ uses more manesium? total bummer.
     
  13. coco holds onto p and k better then cal and mag so the p and k bank will be full before the cal and mag and when its full its releases some p and k and is replaced by cal and mag in the cation bank since cal is immobile once its filled its filled and you shouldn't need more unless you flush which is not recommended cause it messes with the cation bank. so adding more cal then mag in flower will result in a lockout. this is all relative to using coco. soil is diff.
     
  14. #14 SCMC, Dec 13, 2011
    Last edited by a moderator: Dec 13, 2011
    If there is anything I have learned it is that 9/10 hydro store employees don't know shit about anything. You have been mislead.

    1. Silicon is just as responsible for healthy cells. I do think the advice he gave you regarding stem rot was sound, just incomplete, as the amount of Cal-Mag required to keep rot at bay is not exceptionally high.

    2. Coco is a FANTASTIC media for retaining calcium, and most other elements for that matter. It is important to maintain a baseline of Calcium in your solution from start to finish but this does not mean you must supplement additional Calcium. You have your tap water, and your Macro nutrient system, and this is typically going to be enough Calcium for flowering.

    3. What he describes is called precipitation and it occurs with all elements that are not "in solution" or dissolved in water. If you took high school chemistry this should not be a foreign concept. Calcium is not special and it must precipitate with an anion like sulfate or phosphate. Allowing your coco to dry out at any period will cause this precipitation, so it would be wise to follow the general instructions and feed your plants regularly to keep the media moist. When a mature root system is present coco can be kept essentially saturated, which should mean that this concern... is not really something to be concerned about.

    4. There is no way for that guy to determine if your tap water has enough Calcium or Magnesium without looking at your water report first. It may very well be that your tap water contains, lets say for conversations sake, 50ppm of Calcium. It may also be that your Macro nutrient system has 4% calcium in it, and you are running your nutrient at 10ml/gal. This adds about 100ppm of Calcium, plus the 50ppm in your water, for a total of 150ppm. That is PLENTY of Ca and without the knowledge of what is in the water, what is in the macro nutrient, and what volume it is being used at... The assertion that you MUST supplement calcium is absurd.

    5. Plant tissue analysis done (of several varieties of Cannabis) demonstrates that cannabis plants retain less calcium in their tissues during flowering than they do during vegetative growth. This indicates that as the plant matures the need for Calcium diminishes. To ignore this data would be foolhardy in my opinion, especially in coco. Coco retains cations, like calcium. While the media is maturing the grower is obligated to provide greater amounts of Calcium to fulfill the Cation Bank of the media. Once this cation bank is filled, typically about 4 weeks into full strength feedings, the required amount of Calcium will drop significantly. This may also coincide with the period of time many growers switch to flowering. With the Calcium needs of the media and the plant both decreasing, and a completely full Cation Bank, the grower needs to recognize the maturity of the system and dial back the amount of calcium that will be supplemented.

    6. Most coco nutrient systems do contain enough calcium. The element they are most lacking in is IRON. That is the "Plus" in Cal-Mag Plus and it really makes a difference in cation rich media like coco where the element is not present. It is interesting that most growers do not recognize the benefits they get from the Iron.


    I am a calculator.

    I learn what my products contain, I calculate out the ppm levels of each element they provide, and I try to ensure that I have a complete nutrient system which will include more "obscure" elements like Iron and Silicon. By calculating your ppm levels and monitoring the health of the plants and the runoff EC levels you can then get a much more accurate conceptualization of what the plants need and when they need it, over time. Personally, I like to run my Calcium levels pretty high during Veg, about equal with Nitrogen, or up around 150ppm or so. During flowering, with less Nitrogen around, I also cut back my Calcium levels. If I am running around 100ppm of Nitrogen in mid-flower then I would be running around 80ppm of Calcium (80% of N) 40ppm of Magnesium (50% of Calcium) and 200ppm of Potassium (5x Magnesium).

    If you can get your water report, and run the numbers, then you won't be feeding your plants blindly. Then, if you keep a good journal and always keep track of your runoff EC and volume, over time you will really get a good mental picture of how to feed your plants. Every grower is going to need a different amount of Micro elements needed to support their Macro nutrient system. I stick with around 2.5ml/gal of Cal-Mag Plus when rocking Canna Coco A+B. When running Cutting Edge Solutions Micro+Bloom, plus their additives, I didn't need any Calcium supplementation (and I got my extra Mag from Epsom Salts). So, there are variables to consider and you are going to need to apply your brain to the numbers to get to the real answers here.
     
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  15. thanks for chiming in sm you always make it sound so much more professional.
    I'm just a stoner prophet with a measly g.e.d . lol
     
  16. [quote name='"thesage3"']

    you should take a tbl of both crushem and add to 1 liter of ro water shake good and use 2ml to 5ml per gal but start slow. cal mag also has 1ron in it so in mine I added a tbl vitasand reptile substrate which is glorified dolomite lime with vitamin b and c and a few other things like yes iron oxide. but I ruined my first batch by getting to greedy and I tried to get the n also and used molasses. which def upped ppm but went bad in a week.[/quote]

    Ok so I got paranoid and acted fast and top dressed each pot with ½ tsp of garden lime and ¼tsp of Epsom salt. Each pot is a about a 2ounce size. I covered with more coco and watered with phd city water.letting light dry it out for 20hrs then watering at night. But doing a feed with it.
    Is this ok???
    and help me choose between half strength of grow big fox farm nutrients. Or half strength iguana juice by advanced nutrients and with or without light feed of bioroot 1-1-1? Please help with your opinions
     

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  17. hahaha Sage, your so right. i almost hate to follow SCMC's posts. he makes shit sound very professional.

    sextutor, have you tried feeding full strength? it looks like she is very hungry
     
  18. In the last few weeks after countless nute problems i have found that a good coco nute will have just about everything they need except iron but my main problem was not under standing how important the ph is i now run mine at around 5.6 so more vital nutes are more available and just add little es for mag. As far as cal max i have some but only use it if i absolutely have to i just use a good a and b mix, uptake and silica now, i also use swell and pk 13 14 in flower. Other than that just listen to sm lol he has helped me a fuck load. Wish if lived near me i owe him a chop for all the help lmao
     
  19. [quote name='"tothehead"']hahaha Sage, your so right. i almost hate to follow SCMC's posts. he makes shit sound very professional.

    sextutor, have you tried feeding full strength? it looks like she is very hungry[/quote]

    Hungry ugh? Idk ill take it into consideration but I'm sure ur partly right. Just fed her a 1tsp of bioroot and half strength or half tbsp of iguana juice and accidentally phd to 5.0 but I thought it good and watered anyway cuz I thought the GL n Es might bring her Ph up. But ill fix it back to 5.8 in a cpl days. Unless u think I should flush? Ill wait to see how she looks tomorrow.
     
  20. whoa do you have a ec meter ? that thing looks horrible. STOP EVERTHING NOW! spring water spring water spring water until she perks up. the first feeding of spring water take an ec reading of the spring water , then water check run offs ec if over .30 of the spring water was when u watered you've been locking something out. and continue with spring water until she perks and then introduce nutes very slowly. if the run off comes out the same or real close to the same ec , she hungry and feed with a complete fert with mac and micro nutes at a low dose and build slowly. also it wouldn't hurt to do a ph reading of the medium/ slurry test.
     
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