Every watering is too much. I would definitely back off, but I'm still not sold that is the issue. Are temps, humidity, soil moisture, etc the same? Personally, I don't like the mega-microbe packs. Especially not mycorrhizae and trichoderma in the same product. P-
@Sc00byD00bie Finally got some pics up guys, sorry it took so long. As you can see one plant in particular is affected worse than the others but they are all seeming to show some sort of something starting. The exception is in the second picture which is my AK strain and that had been smaller up until recently so it had gotten less water from the waterings where I was adding all the additives. That is my only hunch as to why it looks different. My temps are getting to a max of 82 and a low of 72 and my humidity is usually in the 40 percent range with spikes up to 55 or so at times. I have a nice big oscillating fan constantly blowing air over the tops of them and my lights are vented and are about three feet away (2 600 watt single ended hps's). I generally water once every 7-8 days or so and have been giving them about a half gallon each watering. I usually just lift them and water them based on when they feel light. Thank you all for all the assistance!
@Sc00byD00bie Thank you again, I gave them a slurry last night with a tiny bit of kelp meal top dress as well and I am awaiting to see the results tonight when I get home. Do you think it could be over application of beneficial microbes such as recharge? I really haven't given them all too much (once every 5-10 days) but figure that is the only other thing I have done differently than my girlfriend. The main reason behind using the recharge was because, in theory, it would help make nutrients more available for uptake by the roots. Is this a logical understanding of what these products such as recharge and mammoth P do?
Could be. Plants actually control the microbial population in the rhizosphere. By changing the PH of their exudes they dictate which microbes will thrive. They do this because different species of microbes process different nutrients for the plant to use. The PH in the rhizosphere can change and swing up and down many times a day, all according to the plants needs. IMO using these products just messes with the balance the plant works to create.
@Sc00byD00bie Ahh i completely see what you mean there. Now, do these products make more sense in a salt based nutrient type grow? It does make perfect sense that it would throw off the mix by adding too many microbes that the plant does not necessarily need at that time, which would then throw off the balance of the microbes that the plant DOES in fact need at that point, making the PH swing out of range. Some plants seemed more effected than others, would that also make sense?
Microbes have no place in a salt based hydro grow AFAIK. Thier role is to break down organic matter into elements the plant can uptake, but with salt based nutes everything is already available to the plant, there would be nothing really for the microbes to decompose. Yes its possible that some plants will react differently. Again im not 100% sure this is what causes your issues but IMHO these products are just snake oil. Rich organic compost and/or worm castings will already have all the soil microbes needed for healthy plant growth. Besides mycorrhiza fungi I never added a microbial product to my soil and my plants are doing great.
@Sc00byD00bie That does make perfect sense to me. I wonder how so many people fall for using products like great white and myco madness in coco grows. Now, what about a calcium based nutrient line such as Nectar of the Gods? A friend uses that and it does turn out some of the best cannabis I have ever had out of a nutrient system, however, I still prefer no-till. Also, my plants look MUCH happier today sc00bs thank you again for the help and recommendation on the slurry. I am going to chock this up as the classic "too much of a good thing is still a bad thing" lol.
Isn’t twisting leaves a sign of ph fluctuation and the temp of the water going in. If I water with cool temps I would see that for a hr or two before it bounced back under the lights.
Bottled nutes to be used in soilless media (coco etc) AFAIK. Not needed in no-till or organic rich soils.
@WonderingGoat I was unaware it could be PH fluctuation. I will say I put a little extra dolomite lime into this mix as I have run into similar issues in the past and thought it could of been PH, however, the leaves aren't showing much discoloration except on the far lower leaves where they are blotchy with yellow. Its very strange because before I started having these issues I never saw yellowing happen like this. The rest of the plant is nice and dark green and the twisting has halted since first posting this thread. Everything seems to be returning back to normal but I am still perlexed on how some people get away with using so much MBP and my grow doesn't seem to like it, unless it was the recharge doing it. @Sc00byD00bie So in your opinion would you think it was the over application of enzymes or the products like recharge that led to the issue? Or a combo of both? The pattern of the yellowing is what has me really perplexed because it doesn't quite look like anything in particular. I have also been super careful not to over water but this is only my second go around with 10 gallons so sometimes I will get a little nervous after 7 days of not having to water so I will water even though they feel not bone dry yet. I have just got to do the damn blumats already and stop worrying about it.
TBH its kinda hard to say without some pics. I never had problems with over applying coconut water, then again i never applied so much that I would consider it a lot, but i suppose an over application of growth hormones within could have pushed the plant to grow more then what the root system could sustain. Or it can be something completely different. Try to get some pics up it will really help to diagnose whats going on, otherwise we are just guessing.
I have had/seen the issue with too much enzymes, as well as introducing enzymes (mpb) and having the plant run out of N asap, because the soil hadn't cycled enough or as well as I had thought. In well cycled soil, it seems like you can get away with a lot the first round. If you do the same the next, whether no till or recycled soil, that is when the problems start. May show as foxtailing on plants that have never done it before, or some other weird symptom that just doesn't make sense at the time. Then yellowing for no reason etc. In new soil, I try to limit the enzymes to like 2 light applications of mbp SST, and maybe 2 light applications or blue corn SST at the most. Second cycle I usually cut it in half. I also think this applies to the use of Fulpower, agsil, and other products, which may be over applied with enzymes. I have found that I don't need any of the above, and very modest applications of enzymes/SST's, and only add aloe to them. my $.02 hth cheers os
Same here with a big VOE. I treat enzymes like steroids, very, VERY light in a new mix and by the second cycle what's in fresh VC (top dressed), and the root extrudates (?), seem to take care of everything and nothing else gets added in that vein. Wet
@Sc00byD00bie Yeah I'm actually going to throw a couple pics of some of the leaves I removed from the more affected plants that I took with my girlfriends phone. @wetdog That all makes a lot of sense. I just saw everyone seemingly using it a lot (the watering schedule in the no till revisited thread for example) and figured it was safe enough. I will definitely be learning a lot from this experience and will discontinue any more use of it from here on out since I've done a good amount of applications at this point.
Nothing is random, that doesnt mean I know whats going on though, heh. Usually its kinda hard to diagnose just from a leaf, is this prominent throughout the whole plant? It does look like some sort of deficiency, which would support the too much growth hormones/enzymes theory. How big are the pots again? And how big are the plants in comparison to the pots? Can you take your GF's phone and snap a photo of the plant with pot?
I'd also like to see a whole plant picture. Where were those leaves taken from on the plant? Are you spraying any foliars? I still I don't think that's an 'enzyme' issue. Petioles look pretty purple. P-
I had a similar situation when I applied a kelp foliar followed by a alfalfa foliar less then a week apart on my moms that are in small 1g pots. They got a massive growth spurt with thin wispy stems, deficiency signs all over the place and all the petioles and main stalk turned a dark purple/maroon color. Issue started to clear up once I applied a slurry. My take from that was too much growth in a short time combined with small root mass is what caused it, so not the enzymes per se that caused it just the fact that the plant didnt have enough roots to support the rapid growth spurt. Does that make any sense in your opinion?
I dunno Scoobie. Can't say I have seen deficiencies from spraying nutrient foliars, maybe? I have seen either wet leaves at lights on or oil based foliars do damage like this. I do see he has some pictures a few posts up. Watering every 7-8 days with 82 degree rooms (I'm curious where the thermometer is in the room?) and no top dressing/mulch has my eyebrow raised. Seems like the temps might be a touch too high, low water, and over fertilized. Just a thought, P-