How important is this war/election?

Discussion in 'Philosophy' started by JesusC, Sep 14, 2007.

  1. I was just thinking about this earlier. With the way the world is today and considering the scope of what we are up against (regarding this war), I began to wonder how our situation today compares with those of the past.

    How important is it that we succeed in Iraq, and further more, is it even possible to succeed in that part of the world? Do you believe the vast majority of middle easterners welcome American influence, or are we wasting our time? If we are wasting our time, what happens if we decide to pull out?


    Do you believe this next election will prove to be the most important election in American history? Considering the mess our next president will be responsible for, I say it ranks right up there.

    Americans are divided on how to deal with this war. Some say we should go, while others say we should stay....even candidates within the same parties have different opinions on how to handle the war.

    I know people say this often, but I think this next election is huge for America...
  2. "Eventually, the Americans will tire of their losses and will have to go home."

    -Ho Chi Minh
  3. I won't give a shit past 2009
  4. I feel that this next election will be about as unmonumental an election as this nation has ever seen...

    This country is not ready for change... we are on the other hand quite preparred to maintain the status-quo. Clinton vs. Romney? Take your pick, we're fucked. And the next war will much more greatly define this Generation.

    Now, maybe 2016 or 2020 will be a different story.
  5. the democrats(represents 1% of rich white men) and republicans(represents 1% of rich white men) are just two sides to the same face, working together to seal the fate of the USA, 4 years at a time. so there's one problem with no solution, I don't see any labour parties gaining steam, change in this area does not seem imminent.

    then there is the second and third level of state and local governments, who allow corporate interests to bend their arm like it was going out of style. they are of no use to the people at all.

    and now, the supreme court's makeup is dictated by the obviously fraudulent 2000 election. unfortunately, the sc has no effective check or balance but itself. which leaves the door open for such great sc decisions like 'corporations are people' to be written in stone forever.
  6. Says who?

    I dont understand why you say some of these things? We are currently in the middle of a war that seems almost impossible to win, and nobody knows how long it will continue or how it will all turn out....and you're already thinking about the next one?

    Optimism at its finest.

    You may not be crazy about the presidential candidates, but like it or not one of them will be our next president. The fact that we are in the middle of a War makes this even more important. You may not think this election matters all that much, but im glad that a majority of Americans dont hold that same opinion....otherwise we would be "fucked".

    It makes me wonder....

    How many times throughout American history have we had a Presidential change in the middle of a major war conflict?
  7. We are the Bad Ass of the Bad ASS. Our fighting Warriors are second to NONE, Period!!! The political system is broke in our country with corruption and greed. But to the Farmers and Common Man in America we are a proud Nation and won't back down from no gun slinging AK47 carrying bitch who want's to hide in caves and talk tough. :cool: Okay, I feel better now......
  8. Maybe YOU should go do some fighting then :rolleyes:

    instead of letting your countrymen do it for you.
  9. I'm not saying that I agree or disagree with this current War. What I am saying is that our Nation Means well for the most part, especially our soilders. I believe that we are putting them in Harms' way and we should take out our Enemies with all our means available, not using our soldiers as pawns in political agenda's.

    As far as me going over to fight, that would not be my best use of resources at this time. But I would be up for drawing straws (Once) over here and going one vs one in a cage against our enimies to protect my family and other americans from harms way. :mad:
  10. Riiiight, so you're all gung ho for fighting and killing the enemy, when you're not the one that actually has to be in harms way.

    Go figure :rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes:
  11. You know whats really crazy?

    Bush said he wants to cut 30,000 troops by July, taking our forces down to around 130,000 troops.

    Think about it, we are trying to change an entire region in the world with the same amount of people that are packed into stadiums every weekend for a nascar race.
  12. thats the spirit thats killing this country. i understand people have this idea ingrained in their heads by the media, but if people have revolution ingrained in their minds were going to see a presidental election of monumental importance.

    as for this war, if america want to remain on top we have to stay over there. if we want to dominate the global market we have to stay over there. if we want the middle east and opec to control us by the ballsack we should leave. but my thinking is we build nuclear plants and alternative energy here in america. we are worrying too much about the middle east when we could just go attack venesuela and take their oil. with global warming looming on the horizion, china and india going through an industrial revolution, we could easily see oil reach 10$ a gallon if we dont do anything to aleviate americans energy demands.

    its not all about the oil either. if boeing or smith and wesson(whatever) wants money all they have to do is convince americans its worth it to go kill somewhere. increasing stability in a region by providing them with weapons. great idea....

    whatever is profitable goes. even if its a war lasting a century. even if its stressing the planet to the brink of destruction. thats why we need a real president, thats why we need to have a revolution, so vote for who you think is for real not some chump who is the better of 2 evils.
  13. I do not believe it can be won, at least, not without it turning into a huge generational thing. I do not believe America wants to be in Iraq for the next 30 years, though. I do not believe the majority of Middle Easterners welcome or want American influence, I know if America invaded Canada on the pretense of bring freedom and democracy here, I would not be overly happen. :p

    What happens when you pull out? A civil war happens, or I should say, a full blown civil war happens. The sad thing is, the current Government probably totally relies upon the US, so do their troops and police. It is completely like Vietnam. When the American's pulled out the South Vietnamese had no idea what to do, they had relied upon America for so long, and soon after the American's left the North won the war. A similar thing will probably happen in Iraq. Iran might even get involved and try to take pieces of the country for themselves, who knows, all I know is, stay or go, shit is still going to be hitting the fan. It was a war that should never have happened in the first place.

    No, it will be the same as all others. As other people have mentioned, D or R, it does not matter. The country will still fight wars, will still start wars, and still do everything it is currently doing that people seem to hate so much.
  14. He said that because that's what people want to hear. He also conditioned the downsize saying it will only happen if things are going well. That way, when shit isn't going well (which it won't) he can't be called a liar when he's faced with the fact that we can't just bring some people home. Either put 500,000 more men in, or GET THE FUCK OUT! The only logical decision is the latter.
  15. Logic? In government? I wish!
  16. This thread is filled with utter hippocracies, America is kicking the shit out of Iraq like a 28 year old man on steroids against a small framed boy with glasses.

    The power difference between america and Iraq is unimaginable.



    I am sorry friends, the real battle front isn't for some oil in Iraq, the real battle is for your soul... And by the sounds of this thread everybody has bit the hook and is getting reeeled in nice and quick.

    The bush family financed the concentration camps in Poland; the Natzi's didn't lose WWII, they are in power right now.

    America is a heard of sheep getting taken to it's own slaughter.

    Enjoy your land of the free,
    because this is the fall of rome
    as far as I can see
  17. Your joking -- right?

  18. There are many things I dont understand.....this post being one of them.
  19. We're in a country we have no right to occupy, we are the mediators of waring factions.

    Right now the only way to fix Iraq is to get the troops out and set up a stable democracy with a Government that actually passes laws, enforces it's constitution and abides by the will of the people.

    Until then we will continue to just be occupying an area where Shiite militias are a larger threat then al-Qaeda, where we try to contain a civil war by being moderator. Nothing will change with the reduction of troops, the problem right now is purely governmental, it's always been that, if we'd immediately put in place a strong democracy after the take down of Saddam we could've gotten out of Iraq and re-assessed the threat of al-Qaeda we face from other countries. Then we could've gone about resolving the entire Iraq fiasco with as little post-involvement as possible, which is the exact opposite of what we've done.

  20. If only it was that easy....

    The problem is far beyond governemtnal. How can a government possibly succeed with all of the sectarian violence thats going on? These groups dont care about any sort of "government".

    Like it or not, we have crippled Iraq....we cant pull out. If we hand the problem over to Iraqi troops and pull out, that place is going to be worse off than it was before we got there. At least with saddam in power there was a sense of control (to a certain extent) and now the situation is nearly out of control. Dont get me wrong, Im not saying I thought Saddam was a good leader....but everyone knew who was in control of that country. If we leave now it will be completely out of control.

    You didnt honestly think it would be that simple did you?

    Changing the complexity of an entire country doesnt take months, it takes years and years and years....even then it doesnt always happen.

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