How can I put mg without lime ?

Discussion in 'Growing Organic Marijuana' started by 2cent420, Dec 2, 2022.

  1. I’ve added manure and comfrey I haven’t added lime since the beginning I overdid calcium with gypsum and tap
    But bless I add Epsom at 80ppm under my leds it seems I just never ever have enough mg
    Surely better mg be there ? Ph is spot on so like will swing that out right ? But also at 2:1 ca mg the ratio is far out if I stil have calcium leftover am I stuck with just my epsom water every time ?
    I can’t fathom out why unless there just needy as Hell cause of the led but I have to epsom all the way til the end every time that can’t be good either?

    nitrogen’s awesome roots grow fast and plants grow but sick of seeing mg if I miss epsom dose . There fine if I epsom but problems rise all over if I don’t

    Now I’m gonna trial fish and chicken poo with no epsom for a few week see if that can fix it

    or do we all add epsom n not talk about it lol
     
  2. #2 Vee, Dec 2, 2022
    Last edited: Dec 2, 2022
    [​IMG]
    pic above is Magnesium deficient, if your plants leaves look anything like this then add a tsp(epsom salts)
    to a pint of air temp water and spray on your fan leaves, the plant
    will suck in the chem within 30mins and be fine, or add to your seed water,
    will take 4-6 days to correct

    stop overthinking from here: How to fix Cannabis Magnesium Deficiency (Mg) Pics & Symptoms

    good luck
     
  3. Yeah this is what I have to do every feed add epsom at 80ppm do I really need to keep adding it like that ? Surely there’s a better way than epsom all the time
     
  4. I too struggled with Mag-def, cured by the Jorge Cervantes method of foliar feeding it to the fan leaves
    try the above
    you gotta see mag is not food, but a 'health supplement' , ...

    all plants suffer this curse as we with our Vitamin c.
    then I tried the Jorge method and was stunned how easy to fix it was
    one time at 12x12 is about it for me, maybe post some pics we might have our wires crossed ..lol

    good luck
     
  5. It looks more like a K deficiency to me. The browning of tips along the edges, the yellowing from outside to inside, and the drooping.
    Mag def, imo, get more bleached out between the margins, interveinal chlorosis, like:
    upload_2022-12-2_15-30-17.png
    but not so much burning, and its seen evenly throughout.

    but i'm not going to argue with Nebula Haze...
     
  6. dolomite lime contains Ca:Mg at an appropriate ratio. But you are already potted up and stuff, so its prob best to give a heavy feed of epsom salts, just once. Be careful with this gypsum, this is calcium sulfate and its not very soluble. Its one of the reason why growers need two (or three) part fertilizers, ie. not to mix the calcium nitrate with sulfates or you get gypsum (ie. calcium sulfate).
    its cooler than that when you understand it more. I wrote about this before, but not many people were as amazed (nerd award for me?)

    This is chlorophyll A:
    upload_2022-12-2_15-36-22.png
    You can see how the nitrogen chelates the Mg.

    This is hemoglobin:
    upload_2022-12-2_15-38-50.png
    aka human blood. See how the same molecule chelates the iron?

    So chlorophyll be like blood except it uses Mg instead of Fe ...
     
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  7. #7 Vee, Dec 2, 2022
    Last edited: Dec 2, 2022
    I'd still add some Epson to a pint of warm water shake and spray on just one plant then check back in an hour
    lemme find that article ... = long gone but this is cool
    https://drcannabis.io/magnesium-deficiency-marijuana
    cheers
     
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  8. I agree it won't hurt it, but I got a similar thing going on with my bato plants (which you should come visit again!) and I sprayed epsom to no avail. Since then I've increased the ventilation (idk whatever), increased the pH, and well... obsessed (as my doctor says).

    @2cent420 we could use a photo. Sounds like just adding epsom, either drench or foliar spray, could help, but if its a K def, you'd need to change things up.
     
  9. #9 2cent420, Dec 6, 2022
    Last edited: Dec 6, 2022
    So my finds are that
    Calcification lime and dolomite lime for different reasons

    now I over fed gypsum in the start last year and had city water calcium build up the ph

    citric acid dropped it by bubbling off calcium

    I just didn’t lime and didn’t gypsum for a while scared to

    ro water now and my mg I have to epsom every time to keep it good I think I find why


    Epsom Salts as a Soil Amendment
    [​IMG]


    Epsom salts are best used to make the soil more fertile and productive for plant growth, so try to add this compound to your soil before you begin your garden. Before using Epsom salts, make sure to check your soils with a soil test to know how much of it to add.

    The sulfur found in Epsom salts helps to dissolve calcium found in the soil, while magnesium improves the quality and acidity of the soil. To reinvigorate your soil with nutrients, mix 1 cup of Epsom salt to a gallon of water and drench it all over the ground to heighten the levels of magnesium and sulfur. Repeat this process for all parts of your garden and wait for 2 weeks before planting.


    So basically after adding epsom every feed the sulphur will have bubbles off allll calcium away and I should have added gypsum n lime
    Being that my ph was high I didn’t amend my nutrients which I have now found after fungal and nutrients added the ph will drop due to the acidity of the amendments the nitrogen and the fungal and bacterial cycles so the ph will now drop its currently 7 just
    So I need to add ca and mg so if I lime it should level out
    But if I’ve fed epsom over time and organic matter will my mg be super high ? And ca low so should I add calcifictic lime instead ? Which has lower mg levels
    Do I need to add gypsum ? The Epsom is magnesium sulphate so will my sulphur be high too ? I believe sulphur doesn’t remain long and my edit shows it’s not to be treated as the same so yes I need gypsum too it’s not the same was scars of extra ca
    Btw I add crab too seems ca is on a lot of things lol

    1003795[/URL]]@TimJ @Organic sinse am I having a brain fart or did I just find my problem on this bed




    The question has been raised over and over by Michigan’s Upper Peninsula farmers, but it’s not only an Upper Peninsula issue. Farmers in all areas where soil pH is naturally low, or where magnesium levels are low (or high), have concerns about getting their soil out of “calcium/magnesium balance.” In some areas, the local and most economical source of agricultural lime is from a dolomitic limestone quarry. Calcitic lime may need to be trucked a longer distance, or vice versa. Either way, one source of lime may be cheaper than the other. In this case, it may have been applied repeatedly over many years. The end result of repeated applications of dolomitic lime can be a build-up of soil magnesium level shown in soil test reports. The basic question is: Is magnesium build-up from use of dolomitic lime a problem?

    The short answer? Very unlikely.

    Calcitic lime is derived from deposits of primarily calcium carbonate. Dolomitic lime is derived from deposits of calcium carbonate combined with magnesium carbonate and contains much higher levels of magnesium. The key factors in deciding which of these types of lime should be applied to your soil is the soil pH and magnesium level. There is little difference between lime types in their respective ability to neutralize soil acidity. Also, as long as the amount of each is adequate, the balance of magnesium and calcium can vary quite a lot and have little or no impact on crop performance. Making the decision based on the calcium to magnesium ratio can be a mistake.

    Recommendations from University of Wisconsin Extension’s publication, “Soil calcium to magnesium ratios – Should you be concerned?,” include the following:

    • Calcium deficiencies in Wisconsin are rare in soils above pH 6.0. However, if a crop requiring a low pH is being grown and liming is not recommended, gypsum can supply calcium to the crop.
    • If liming is required, a dolomitic or calcitic liming material will supply sufficient calcium to maintain crop growth. Dolomitic lime sources have the added benefit of increasing available magnesium.
    • Choose the most economical liming material when liming is required. Do not apply gypsum or calcitic limestone to Wisconsin soils simply to increase soil calcium to magnesium ratios.
    • If you choose a liming material low in magnesium, be careful to avoid magnesium deficiencies. High calcium applications alone can decrease soil and plant magnesium levels. If the soil is acid and originally has a low magnesium content, adding a calcitic (low magnesium) liming material or high rates of gypsum could induce a magnesium deficiency.






    • Edit
    • Gypsum improves soil conditions much more rapidly than lime and will affect soil conditions to a greater depth than lime will. Gypsum will supply calcium to deeper depths than lime. This will improve subsoil conditions, and allow for greater root growth (better nutrient and water efficiency).

    • Calcitic and dolomitic lime are very similar in that they are calcium carbonate based. They are also used for similar purposes, i.e. to neutralise soil acidity, and to add calcium ions to the soil. There is one significant difference though. Dolomitic lime contains magnesium, whereas calcitic lime does not. This is an important distinction, as certain soils require additional magnesium, and other soils would be harmed through the addition of magnesium. It is important that the correct lime is used for the correct context.
     
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  10. We add Epsom Salts every watering, and have for years. It has no draw backs from what Ive seen. Weed is a very very vey greedy user of Magnesium. The number #1 indoor gardening deficiency is Magnesium.
    I normally use Promix BX as my medium, and it contains both Calcitic, and Dolomitic lime at a ratio of 2/3 Calcitic Lime to 1/3 Dolomite. Thats the ratio Promix BX uses. Calcitic is faster for PH change.
    In my neck of the woods the native soil has alot of Clay, and if you use to much Dolomite, it will turn your soil into concrete. So the 2/3 Calcitic to 1/3 parts Dolomite works very well.
    I would just continue to add the Epsom salts. The Sulfur content is also a good way to increase terpenes.
     
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  11. If you are still in an organic growing medium.
    I'd suggest getting your growing medium tested as RD suggested. Make the necessary corrections that are suggested and you should be fine to continue growing with the medium you are currently in. I'd also suggest looking up your area's water report. Here is an attached link you may find helpful.
    Tap Water Quality | US drinking water quality data by zip code.
     
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  12. soil savy soil test kit on amazon 30 bucks and have results in about a week, that who i use , organic or other they will recomend what you need , most likely if your micro nutes are out of whack , they normally are full blown out of whack , the manganese is the controling mineral to keep from getting toxic results.
    they send your test results by email and i have personally called them and they were glad to help
     
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  13. [​IMG] There is mg slightly showing but the brown shows more ca I think defo dolomite lime
    I did my amendments and watered in ph went from 7 to 6.3 so I can afford to lime now hehe
    Soil tests here are 40 I’ve applied for one but takes 4weeks as one grow is in the bed will have to stay in veg till report is back
    The other is ok there stil in pots waiting for me to mix up but I’m gettin soil tests on that one before planting in or amending
    @TimJ im on ro water buddy since my last city water fight but is also why I didn’t add any lime gypsum last round and I think after citric acid etc I should have as it bubbles the ca down as my ph restored I should have clicked that the ca had depleted to do that

    [​IMG]
     
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  14. I personally wouldn't add lime back in my soil. 6.0-7.0 pH is fine. I'm not the greatest at diagnosing other peoples plant problems as there are two many unknown variables to consider. I'd suggest looking for issues that only affect leaf edges as that is where your issue seems to be. Interveinal chlorosis is not always caused by a calcium deficiency.
    The following article may be helpful.
    https://www.gardenmyths.com/chlorosis-plants-iron-deficiency/
     
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  15. Kinda looks like K deficiency to me but.
     
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  16. Thinking the same now or manganease
    I’m sending soil test but it takes 2 weeks for it to come back
    I’ve amended with neem kelp etc will that do k? Surely should ?
     

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