Yes sativied that is wrong of me, sorry I am just getting frustrated with all the trolling crap and competitions. We are all here to improve and share knowledge, no need for the measuring stick. I mean honestly, do you look through my posts? I actually did go take some pics since no one seems to believe this is possible. I would like to also know why my system functions so much better at a ridiculously low ppm. The purpose of my low ppm is to avoid the tip burn or any foliage discoloration. I don't understand why everyone thinks tip burn is normal...? ITS NOT! It is avoidable! I would also like to state that we all know the ppm drops when your feed is too low; so that tells us that mj has the capability of actually taking the nutes from the water as they are needed, more proof imo that cannabis DOES NOT REQUIRE CERTAIN MINERAL EC'S. What is important is that all of the minerals are there and in a acceptable balance. Those pics are from plants that were grown in 800ppm, no humidity control and very high VPD that caused a couple spots. That grow was like two years ago, lol. I never claimed to be a perfect grower, just better then most and always improving; never willing to accept any answer except proven ones. Christopher Columbus thought the same way..You cant prove the world is flat, ill prove its round. And you cant prove that a certain ec is required to grow healthy cannabis plants, ill prove it's not. Prove me wrong and I will gratify you. For my ppm advice I say never high then 500ppm(in dwc) but I never said never lower then a certain number either. I never stated anywhere that 500ppm was a optimum number, but more so a limit to not exceed. If you want to throw nutes down the drain when you change your res then that's your call. You have to remember this creatures ability to ADAPT. I am currently trying to see just how low of a ppm I can run to keep a non deficient, healthy, happy, and dank plant. If your plants are already ADAPTED to high ec then of course low ec will cause them to go deficient...I could go into the science of it but as long as this post is going to take, please spare me... ALWAYS, the more nutes or higher ec I use, the more problems I have. The problems occur even more often with nutes that contain more chelated minerals. One problem with high salt content in the water is it actually dehydrates more then it hydrates and that is why most people get plants that look like they are suffering from drought when they are burned. The high salts refrain proper water uptake and then adding more nutes does nothing but make the problem worse- been there, done that hundreds of times. This is what starts the leaf curl; your plant is trying to restrict respiration, which in-turn will limit the amount of water it needs. I have read and proven in my room that with low ec you get stomatas opened larger, better water uptake, faster respiration, greater DO holding capability in the water, healthier roots, and less plant stress; all of that equaling to a faster growing plant and a more medicinal product. Other things that I notice about insanely low ppm are, more resin content of super sticky resin, more density, a much stronger scent and flavor; more then I have even seen on any of my grows. The quality is what I'm after and that comes from a healthy plant, NO MATTER WHAT EC IT'S GROWN WITH, experience will teach that to anyone. I can run my system at such a low ppm and not go deficient as long as I change my res weekly. I have ran plants on 80ppm creek water at weeks and had explosive growth (one thing that led me to run lower numbers) I have ran plants all the way down to 12 from a 30ppm starting point and they seemed fine. It almost seems like the lower the number the more efficiently they use the nutes. One theory being the fact that they think their source is limited so they make good work of what they have. I'm not sure how long a normal veg is but for me it's about 3 weeks before I feel the plant is vigorous enough to flower. My ec's stay relatively close to where I veg at. Running my ppms high always cause's 'deficiencies' looking like the single leaf pictured here. Then I get people that always tell me to add calmag or another miracle product like epsom salt (total bs product in my book, more salt=more worse) The more I add the worse it got, ALWAYS. I'm not worried about doing what everyone says to do I just want healthy and dank plants, However I obtain that is fine with me. If more nutes is better then I want to do, or would be doing it, but I cant live with nute burn. I also cant live with losing whole grows due to overwhelming nutrient disorders caused from high ec or ppm. Low ec has never killed any of my plants, high ec has. My plants find the nutes better in a low ec environment and I use co2 @1500ppm (now 1000 lower due to other obtained info) 1k lights 110liter air pump pushing 8" stones for each plant. It is a fact that after countless strains and grows that I have less problems, more stability in the reservoir, and healthier plants with much lower ec's then anyone would recommend. I do also now remember the company stating dwc functions better in low ec environment and it was a company by the name of Current Culture, they specialize in dwc or uc growing. They also state about half the recommended doses that most companies say are fine for dwc, 500ppm being the number they said, if I remember correctly. But I am still out to disprove this 500ppm or any number for that fact as being 'optimum'. I have had one of my most successful grows with Ken's bay11 that never went over 80ppm. I think I have a recording and will try to figure out how to make that public.. Some of those plants were runts, some had leaf curl, some were huge, but all of them had no burn, copious amounts of the stickiest resin I have ever touched, massive amounts of flavor, unprecedented plant vigor; best of all, none of them stunted out or died. lol you showed me yours, now you're right, I have to show you mine ;-) My plants are small right now because I'm going through many seeds to find good mothers. http://forum.grasscity.com/hydroponic-growing/1246579-reverse-osmosis-tips-tricks.html/page-2 post 35 is some recent ones on low ppm. recommended ppm grow, had deficient leaves. Always adjusting ph and taking logs. Fluctuating ppm and ph. Big buds with lesser flavor Slightly lower ppm then recommended almost one year ago. Still fluctuating ph, semi stable ppm, decent flavor Some current purple haze at 2 weeks on very low ppm. 80ppm has been max dose. @ 40ppm now and stable. Blue dream 1' grow with a average ppm of 200 stable ph and ppm. Minor deficiencies from a 350ppm exposure. 1' great white shark. 2 plants. 125ppm and stable. The Big went up to 300ppm and started to show some yellowing. Yes, yellowing at higher ppm. Confidential cheese that was flowered from a seedling and never went above 80 ppm super lemon haze 1' @ 130ppm. Just spiked from 40ppm. Stable ph&ppm I will continue to update as my experimenting continues. Also sorry about the turned pics, I hate looking at sideways pics also, they started out upright...? Oh well after this lengthy post I'm not messing with them.
Hats off to you sir for returning with an improved attitude to the thread! Nice post. B) Like you admitted yourself you're not really certain why super low ppms are working for you or why higher ppms aren't. With that in mind IMO you should just be a bit careful about the way you share advice that isn't a known working standard. Others may not be able to replicate the same results as you have been able to. The fact is others using higher ppms are also getting good/better results with (in my eyes) healthier plants that show no signs of tip burn or other issues. Also remember that unhealthy leaf tips or leaves isn't always the result of nutrient burn. Personally, If I were you I'd be experimenting to figure out why standard ppm levels aren't achieving the same results that almost everyone else is getting. Definitely don't change what you're doing if you're happy with it though. At least you're saving some cash on nutrients this way! I don't know about the creek water. Maybe it was working a bit like aquaponics does but you're not having to maintain or feed the fish.
Thank you. Yes, I was becoming a negative Nancy. Some good mj and I realized I was only depriving my beloved mj plants of the proper care they deserve. I am just a slave to the plant... So if people can get the same results; because you're correct, results with high or low ppm can be similar, then wouldn't it make sense to figure out why everyone else is wasting so much nutes, and to not worry about why my system works so much better in low ppm, but why can't everyone else's? Why do you people spend so much on nutes? Why do most people throw out 500-1000ppm of perfectly good nutes when they run high ppm and change the reservoir? Plants were never grown with salts or certain "qualified ec's" until some so called genius or scientist said the numbers made a difference on a certain plant, which I'm sure was not cannabis. The high ec only increase osmotic pressure on the root system, this causes extra stress on the plant. High ec does not increase the availability of any mineral. The best grow has every mineral in the right balance, and that comes from less additives and proper use of only a base nutrient. There is a reason aquaculture (growing in a fish tank), throwing a plant outside in the dirt, or using organics produces a better tasting and less problematic grow. It's the absence of all the salts. Reduce your salt levels and your quality will increase. I would put my crop up against any organics, any day. I am not saying you should intentionally grow a deficient plant, but you have to make her work a little. IMO it is better to run with the lowest ec that WONT cause deficiency's, you get better quality. My yields vary in plants ran on the same ec; so with that being said, I base my yield on plant vigor of a certain strain, not how high I can get my ppm. I feel like a broken record sometimes....
If I could feed less for better results I would. I often feed less to mothers/cuttings intentionally to slow and stunt their growth while I manage other priorities. At no point do they ever appear to enjoy a lower EC (including new seedlings). I aim to achieve a dark green, glossy, almost plastic look to my plants. I can go EC 2.0 with base nutrients + tap water + PK booster with no tip burn during flower. The worst I've ever seen is a little tip droop or slight edge roll on fan leaves only and that is usually from higher temps. I also don't have to waste any time customising nutrient strength to individual strains. For the most part (+ or - 10%) they all get the exact same treatment and behave the same way. Most of us think our own grows produce the best quality and we'd all be happy to have it scrutinised against any other method. Personally, I don't believe for one second that organics produces better quality, better taste or is somehow less problematic. From my experience I'd be inclined to believe the opposite. Unfortunately, it does come across like you've pioneered or discovered some new theory on growing hydroponically that others are too stupid or stuck in their ways to accept. To believe that I'd need to see much better quality plants and also have it replicated to countless others around the world.
Yes very true. I have always believed in the pushing of plants with ppm but you can get the same boost from a good practice in reservoir changes imo. If I pushed four plants I would often see one that would stunt out. Once she's stunted she's no good for my canopy. You said you intentionally stunt plants by underfeeding.. I could suspect that when you raise the ppm in one system and leave it low in another that the reservoir receiving more ppm is one that gets a recent change, which in turn causes the rapid growth, correct? I have seen lusher plants in my day off of low ppm but like I said these plants were flowered asap. Like I said, I have just started dabbling with this low ppm but so far I'm impressed with my results. This is my third low ppm run, I do know what high ppm is capable of. Yes 8 years, all of them were indoor and perpetual, and seven years of slamming nutes down my girls throats.. I'm not claiming to be a master but just stating that I have a decent amount of experience so my words shouldn't be taken so lightly. If someone were to say they just started, well then their words can be taken as a grain of salt. Cflpro and sativied would you mind answering honestly how long you have been growing? Seasonal or perpetual? Specifically cannabis? Cflpro fo you have some 2.0ec pics? Current pics, or any pics for that matter?
I grew my first plant about 20 years ago. I didn't and still don't grow perpetually and I only grow amounts required to sustain myself. I've also had 6 years experience growing tomatoes. I only have a few pictures that are already uploaded to the site which I can access for now. View attachment 1218223 View attachment 1217540 View attachment 1208208 View attachment 1229458
Did we lose someone? I have been in this debate a handful of times with people, once the plants go up they always disappear. Funny how that works. What happened to the nute dj?
Very late to this thread but I’ve always used Aqua Flakes and RO in DWC. There is no magical answer to PPMs but overall I start seeds and clones in about 300ppm. Gradually increase it to 500-600 in veg and 600-750 in flower. My plants can eat 100ppms in a day so unless growing was a full time job no way could I do <300ppm grows. I personally don’t buy it based on my entire life’s experience but I also don’t care. Using such a low nute content will probably be more issues for the average grower. I would not suggest it as the norm. But I also think 1000+ppm grows with aqua flakes is complete overkill if even possible to get that high. Reality is this with aqua flakes. You wont burn anything at 400-500ppm. If you are at 500 and having issues, 99% it’s pH. Check your meter. Recalibrate it etc... Sent from my iPhone using Grasscity Forum
You're right about the ppm going up meaning it's drinking more water, and ppm going down meaning it's eating more nutes. It doesn't necessarily mean you have to fuck with it RIGHT THEN, I use it kinda like more of a base guide as to what to mix in my next gallon, if that makes sense. Your nute requirements will also change depending upon strain. Some strains are heavy feeders, and some aren't. I have some GG from ILGM in my tent right now, and this fat bitch so far has drunk everything I've thrown at her and probably could take more. I just haven't bc nutes are fkin expensive sometimes. I use the GH Flora series in my hydro right now, and it's working pretty well for me. I might try another type eventually but for now this kind has worked just fine for me.
Actually I take back what I said about low ppm grows. I am back growing again after a 5 year hiatus and can’t believe how much I have forgotten. I remembered that I wrote up a thread called simple dwc back in the day. Revisited it, as it was all written from my actual experiences in past. I crushed shit it the past and seemed so easy compared to this grow. I just needed to get back to basics is all. I keep my ppms less than 600 all the time. I had some weird issues this grow. Going from tap to RO, then going mental over nute and pH, temps, the gamut. In the end, too much light was my enemy! Who da fuq would have guessed that could be a thing. Gave me some weird looking symptoms that resembled a crap ton of other issues. Sent from my iPhone using Grasscity Forum
Not sure there's such a thing as too much light, but you can have the lights too close and they'll burn the crap out of your plants. Distance depends on the type of lights, of course.
Light stress is a real thing. My temps are in upper 60’s within 12inches of my 600w HPS. It’s not heat stress, they were literally drooping and very light green closest to the bulb. It was also stressed from going from 240w LED to a 600w HPS.
Definitely real , I just put two quantum boards in my 2' × 2 1/2' closet I'm having to slowly adjust them to this new light source. Pretty sure I could straight up kill them if I turned them all the way up. Sent from my SM-G950U using Grasscity Forum mobile app