Hlg 260 xl v2 parallel or series differences?

Discussion in 'Lighting' started by Mapleleaf fever, Dec 10, 2018.

  1. Had originally posted this in the wrong category . Newbie to this and not so tech smart. Recently bought a new Hlg 260 xl v2 and inquired about dimming. As a result they sent me a 240H -54b driver. With an add on potentiometer to allow me to dim way down....HOWEVER...I realized I can only run this driver in parallel and not series. My question is will these boards run in parallel put out the same output if I had have bought the driver for series wiring. I’m concerned I won’t max out the output now. Should I have just gone with the normal driver that comes with the set? I was looking to be able to cut down on electricity and worried I’ve given up output now. Can someone explain the differences of each set up. Parallel and series ?
     
  2. I'll redirect this @Tbone Shuffle he's the guru on wiring those things
     
  3. Thanks. I reached out to him and he educated me on the differences. Appreciate it
     
  4. That driver will power the boards Just fine. In my experience that driver typically pulls 300 watts from the wall. Those boards should be about 150 watts each so they should be about maxed out.
     
  5. Didn't see this.
     
  6. All good. I was concerned I may have needed to install an in-line fuse for safety prevention but pretty sure these boards are extremely safe even in parallel
     
  7. #7 Tbone Shuffle, Dec 11, 2018
    Last edited: Dec 11, 2018
    The driver has built in over current protection. I would also recommend that you plug it into a surge protector with an overcurrent reset. Between all that and the breaker in your breaker panel you'll have 3 current trip safety devices in line without adding a fuse.

    LED gardner last year attempted to burn up a qb288 using well over 600 watts to attempt to do so on a single board. He was unable to do it. I still haven't heard of a single board burning out in the 20 months or so I've been dealing with HLG boards. I feel like they're capable of running at least a little above even the rated max without issues. As long as your temps are good. There is very little danger of ever burning one up at standard max rated power levels which is all that driver is capable of.

    Parallel used to be a big no no with leds. Older design diodes were prone to something called thermal runaway and would burn up when pushed even 25% or so past their max rating. As they heated up they would draw more current. If one burnt out in a parallel wired string of them then suddenly the current available from the driver is higher with that one less load. It can cause a chain reaction that burns up all the diodes. That's just not the case with the newer diodes.

    Not only that but the boards themselves are wired in parallel. Each board HLG makes is built of different numbers of diodes arranged in rows that are in series but the rows are all tied together in parallel to create the different voltage requirements of the different boards. If it's safe to wire the diodes on the boards themselves in parallel circuits it should be safe to do it with the drivers.

    Even HLG has came around to the parallel wiring more when they would only recommend series at first. Some of their recommended drivers for the different boards now are parallel wired constant voltage/constant current. I know for a fact that HLG uses a meanwell 600h-54b wired in parallel on the 600h four board qb288 fixture. Meanwell doesn't make constant current drivers in the 600h series. If they do it on the fixtures that they build themselves it has to be safe.
     
  8. #8 Tbone Shuffle, Dec 11, 2018
    Last edited: Dec 11, 2018
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    In series all loads get the same current but the voltage requirement of the circuit is added together between the loads. With a constant current driver it will sometimes be putting out over 200 volts. It will vary the voltage depending on the required load to make each load get that same constant current. That's why it was preferred with older diodes. It would lock them to a current level where even if one diode burnt out the remaining diodes would still get the same current and so be safe from thermal runaway.

    In order to size a series wired driver you will select the current range that you want. Say it's 2100mA. That's one of the most common. That's good for qb132's they're rated at 2000mA max at 36 volts. The qb288 is rated at 2800mA max but most people don't run it near that high. It's most commonly wired to the 2100mA current range drivers.

    If you have 4 qb132's at 36 volts each the voltage requirement for that is 36 x 4 = 144volts.
    If you have 2 qb288's at 54 volts each the voltage requirement is 54v x 2 = 108volts.

    If you look at the meanwell HLG-240h-c2100a driver the voltage range is 59-119volts out. That's good for the 2 qb288's but it won't work for the 4 qb132's since they need 144. That's why you have to use the 320h driver on those if you want a meanwell HLG constant current.

    In parallel all loads get the same voltage but the total current output of the circuit is divided evenly between the loads. You just select the voltage you need in the end of the model number. I know the HLG-240h-24a is 10amps total @24 volts. It's both a constant current and a constant voltage driver. That is what it will put out unless you change the setting with the included voltage or current dimmer. If you wire that to 4 qb120's in parallel they will get 10 amps divided by 4 boards. That's 2500mA each or exactly the max rating of the board from HLG. They don't sell a constant current driver in the 240h series that is 2500mA. The highest you can get is the 2100mA so the parallel choices offer a little more current for the wattage typically. You are better able to get the most from the driver.

    The meanwell HLG drivers are actually known to blow about 10%-20% or more past their ratings depending on what they are wired to as was mentioned in an earlier post. The 240h can draw up to 285 watts at the wall from what I've seen. The 240h number is intended to represent it's potential output not the wall draw. You should realize that the numbers you get on the data sheets are at 240volts. It says that in the fine print. 99% of people run these on 120v and if you dig you find out that even the HLG series driver is only about 91.5% efficient when using that voltage. That's why they can draw up to 285 at the wall but the output to the boards is around the 250-270 range. They also run hotter on 120v. If you have access to it the drivers would love you for giving them 240v 2 pole current to work with.
     
  9. Wow. I think my mind just blew on thermal runaway before the any of the boards did lol. I appreciate all the insight. It’s a little overwhelming at first and without being an electrician and understanding owms law. I could see how it would be tough at first. A seriously appreciate all the help on this
     
    • Like Like x 1
  10. I highly recommend watching LED Gardner's 4 part youtube series covering series/parallel wiring and the intricacies of meanwell drivers. It was extremely informative and worth the time. Part 1 is linked below.

     
  11. Thank you. I did watch that 4 part series. He seems to think the direct current driver will output a little higher than the direct voltage driver as I guess he sets the current at 2100 milliamperes then plays with voltage input I have the direct voltage driver so I’m only pumping out 54 volts between the two boards wired in parallel I’ll have to check the current with a multi meter but I can only play with the resistance on the potentiometer. I just didn’t wanna be losing out on potential output going with the parallel constant voltage 240h 54b driver
     
  12. I'm not sure if that video mentions it but I think people get confused about the HLG series drivers. All of them are constant current but the ones with a voltage in the model number are both constant voltage and constant current. The HLG series will put out their rated current unless they are dimmmed.

    A constant current driver will vary the voltage in it's range according to what the load needs to run it's set current rate. The constant voltage driver will also put out the same current all the time but it also puts out the same voltage with no vary because of load.
     
  13. Tbone, are you sure thats the way the CV+CC drivers work or maybe I'm misunderstanding you? If you watch the LED Gardner videos he clearly demonstrates that the current output is variable between 0mA and the max current rating at any given voltage without using the current pot. Watch part 2 starting about 5:06. He hooks one cob to the driver and it outputs 760mA at 34V (26W). Without adjustment, he hooks up the second cob and the driver outputs 1.4mA at 34V (48W). The current doesn't quite double because of some voltage loss in the crappy components hes using. The CV+CC drivers don't operate as constant voltage and constant current at the same time. Its a constant voltage driver up to the point its outputting max current, then it flips into constant current mode (i.e. reduces voltage to maintain that max current output). The current rating on the CV+CC drivers is not what it outputs all the time. It's simply the max it can output. It's why you could safely run a small load off a big CV+CC driver. For example, you could safely (ignoring the small possibility of thermal runaway) run a single QB120 off an HLG-600h-24. In this case, with the driver voltage pot adjusted to 23V the driver would output about 2700mA even though its capable of producing 25000mA. Again, maybe we're saying the same thing and I'm just not connecting the dots. I did eat a gummy about an hour ago.
     
  14. That's the way it's supposed to work. The load only consumes what it needs from the max current available in the driver in parallel. Thermal runaway changes that with leds though. It's the reason if I use a parallel driver it's sized quite close on max output compared to max output of the loads I want to drive. I don't ignore thermal runaway when wiring in parallel.There does seem to be a point that the qb boards level off with thermal runaway.

    I never really considered running a single board off of a larger driver in parallel. I need to watch the video. I've watched it before but now I'm wondering how he was able to push a qb288 to over 600 watts if it would just turn off when you get outside of the voltage range and it would only consume what it needed from the driver current wise? My qb96's are the only boards I have wired in parallel. They consume the max the driver will put out I guess it's because they are capable of way more current so they just suck up everything the driver can give.

    My computer uses a 650 watt power supply but it's never using that much power. It's also wired in parallel.
     
  15. If you haven't seen it, look up the QB288 torture test videos on youtube as well. It's fun to watch what the boards can take. Spoiler alert: You almost cant damage these things even when you do stuff you shouldn't.
    Part 1:
    Part 2:
     
  16. I've seen them. It's been a while but I link them to people when they get paranoid about setups like they think they will burn up.
     
  17. Now I’m getting paranoid to run this thing lol. I notice the v2 boards are lower voltage boards too.
     
  18. I have more confidence in those boards then any other light fixture you could buy. Anything else would be more likely to burn out first from what I've seen. Like was posted above people have attempted to burn the qb288's up and nobody has succeeded. A single board that's only rated at 150 watts has taken 600+ without failing.
     
  19. So just so I can rest easy. The v2 boards which I have are rated between 46 and 49 volts. I think 47 or 48 volts at 2100 milliamps with max rating for 2800 milliamps The driver I have is a 54 volt dc output with potentiometer leads off the side which I can adjust voltage. I’ve wired in parallel. Since I don’t own a tester I’m trying to do the math on my max output to put my worries to rest. Will the fact that the v2 boards are only rated for 49 v + 1 have any major impacts with me running a 54 v driver. Will I have to dim down the potentiometer to ensure I don’t put out over 49v? Or should I not even be running this driver on these boards? Should I have been given a 48v driver? I’m so lost with this stuff I’m starting to think I should have just said screw the potentiometer and just got the 240h 2100 driver wired in series that seem to come with the kit. This is what I get for trying to cut down on electricity lol
     
  20. LED's have a fairly narrow window of voltage they will operate in. You might have to dim it a little to get it in range but you should be fine with that driver.

    HLG uses the meanwell HLG-600h-54b on the 600h fixture they make with those same boards.
     

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