Hempy bucket questions

Discussion in 'Hydroponic Growing' started by fearnoevil, Dec 13, 2011.

  1. Hey all, I'm new to hydro and for my first project I decided on a HB system. I've decided to start my own thread so I don't have to hijack other hempy threads, lol.

    So I've built a 3-tier stadium grow (measures 6'x8'), lighting is 4 x 400w MH and using GH FloraDuo nutes w/BioRoot, FloraMicro, Hygrozyme, Carboload and H2o2. Currently the temps are running a little high (84-87f.) due to inadequate ventilation which I'm working on correcting, and rH fluctuates between 40-75 (will be adding a dehumidifier).

    I currently have 30 3-gal buckets and although it might sound strange, I'm using 12 different strains, largely because I want to try something new and so am using this grow to find some new favorites (hopefully). The strains are SharksBreath x G-13, Sour Kush, Grapefruit, Cindy 99, Critical Mass, CH9's Jack and Jack33, CH9's Aroma, Vintage 2006, Red Dwarf, and I'm trying out some auto-flowers Haze Auto and Staryder Auto. I realize this could cause me some problems and yields might suffer, but I'm more concerned about the high/taste and production as secondary. Then I'm planning for my next grow to be pretty much made up of the 2 best from this grow, vamos a ver.:smoke:

    I'm not sure how others have solved this problem, but since I needed a way to catch the runoff, I built the benches with a 1/8" per foot grade, then each bench/step was constructed using pressure treated 2x4's spaced just wide enough to fit a 2" pvc pipe down the middle. Using a jig, I cut the pvc pipe in half lengthwise, cut caps in half as well and glued at each end and set in the space to act as a drain trough. The low ends were drilled to accommodate 1/2" pvc pipe and then plumbed together to create one single drain for each half of the stadium. I'll post some pics to clarify what I did...

    So my first question is how does this set up look? Did I just reinvent the wheel (is that how it's normally done) or is there another way to drain these things?

    Now I'm not sure if this is the case, but in a normal HB system, are the roots forced to grow towards the rez in search of nutes, or is this just a part of the normal root growth pattern? That is are they growing more quickly than normal (towards the res) or just spreading throughout the bucket and eventually end up reaching the rez?
     

    Attached Files:

  2. Looks neat!

    Here's my take on Hempy's...their beauty is in their absolute simplicity. I'm sure you are well aware of that.

    The original design involves no parts to speak of, a very simple cheap medium, and a very simple, cheap nutrient regimen. Of course people have built upon the design over the years if you will, and any of it is adaptable. It's a versatile method that functions with different approaches.

    The first thought to mind is that you had to put a lot of work and parts into building all of that. Not a bad thing at all, and you did a great job, but see below here for my next gently intended comment:

    The main thing that strikes me with your design there is that you are going to be watering your ass off with that many Hempys. Seems to me it's gonna amount to lots of waste and a bit of work, and IMVHO you could make things easier on yourself with that many plants using some type of recirculating, ebbing/flooding, RDWC, NFT oriented system.

    I run those little cheapo clear plastic drain pans under my Hempys and just suck it out with a big syringe, but I only run 4 for my mother plants.

    That said, good luck with it, and I think you've got a good solution to the runoff situation. Hempy's rock, and if all the watering doesn't bother you, I think you'll be pumped.
     
  3. #3 fearnoevil, Dec 13, 2011
    Last edited by a moderator: Dec 13, 2011
    EDIT: Sorry BHP but I missed your post. Thanks for the props and the advice. I have to agree with the watering thing, but then I kind of figured it'd be a bit more work than I wanted, and I am considering how to set up some kind of watering system.

    First off, I was initially going to connect all the individual drains together, but then realized that I might want to rotate the pots every 3-4 days and that's when I came up with the trough idea. But now I'm stuck on how to plumb a feeding system although I have an idea of how to do it. I'm thinking that about running a 1/2" line along the back of each row but not connected to anything, just resting on the edges of the buckets. Then at each bucket connect a 1/4" line then a tee which will just loop around into itself to form a circle with 3-4 sprayers equally spaced throughout the loop. This is the tricky part - I'll need to be able to adjust the pressure so that they only spray enough to wet the interior of the bucket and not spray outside (could get messy, cause mold or other bad stuff, etc) so I'll need some adjustable spray heads.

    The drawback to this system is that it's probably not possible to get the system to water every bucket with the same amount, and if it's run so that all the buckets at least get the minimum needed, there's bound to be more nutes wasted and this hempy system uses plenty even under the best of conditions I'm finding.

    If someone has a better idea I'd certainly be happy to hear it. Otherwise I'm leaning towards just using a pump, a long hose and a spray wand which will allow me to at least water each plant as quickly and easily as possible within the limits of this system.

    * * * *

    I'm currently watering daily using 5 gallons of nutrient solution @ 1350ppm. The runoff has been pretty consistently metering @ 480-500ppm and I filter the runoff through 75 micron screens on each catch-bucket to keep it clean.

    So this may be a dumb question, but I was wondering if reusing this solution by just adding more nutrients is going to cause problems.:rolleyes: What I mean is that the way I understand it, the hempy bucket system is designed as a drain-to-waste system, and I think that that's an essential part of it's simplicity like not having to worry about all the problems that accompany a reservoir-type system. So does reusing the runoff once or twice begin to introduce problems or not, that is the question.:confused:
     
  4. Another Q, am I going to have a problem with the fact that these buckets are translucent? I'm wondering if I need to wrap them in black plastic to prevent algae growth, any ideas?

    Also, it occurred to me that reusing the runoff might be problematic in that even though I can tell that there are 500 ppm of nutes in the catch bucket, I don't know the exact makeup of it. Of course it would be nice to think that the plants used an equal amount of each and that the ratios stayed the same, but I'd bet money that that's probably not the case, and if that's right, then continuing to reuse the runoff might result in a build up of some nutrients and too little of others. Does that make sense or am I just overthinking things, lol? :bongin:
     
  5. #5 bhp70, Dec 13, 2011
    Last edited by a moderator: Dec 13, 2011
    My opinions only again. Hoping you get some more here for some more perspective.

    1) I would chill on trying to design a drip system for them. In my opinion, your intuition is good there, and it is indeed going to be a PITA to get equal flow to all pots. Handwatering is manual labor of course, but at least that way you know what's going down.

    You could certainly design a drip system with drains to waste tubs, but honestly brother, at that point you've installed all the parts that go with a more active hydro system. At this point you need like 15 cubic feet of perlite for every run, unless you reuse, which I've heard go both ways in terms of success. In my opinion, there are cheaper/more effective ways at that point. You've introduced a reliability factor in terms of the watering system which counteracts the idiot proof nature of handwatered Hempys, plus the quantities of medium and nutrient mix are going to be much higher than a more traditional netpot/hydroton (insert your favorite here)/recirc'ing mix system.

    All that said though, if an automated Hempy system is what makes you happy, I think you could totally do it and have success. Seems like you are trying to think outside the box, and have good analytical/problem solving skills...those two things go a long way in life in any endeavor.

    2) The buckets I'd wrap with something. If you've got any black/white laying around that'd be a pretty cheap, quick, easy fix. Just cut a bunch of squares to wrap around each bucket and tape em on.

    Algae loves perlite in my experience. If you haven't, I'd throw a layer of hydroton over the top of your perlite too. The stuff ain't gonna kill ya, but it will compete for nutes with your plant.

    Probably ultimately not a big deal though, once the canopy bushes out, not much light makes it down to the buckets. Dynamic might be a little different with vert bulbs like that though...I'd cover em.

    3) I've never tried to reuse waste with Hempys. I wouldn't do it; not to say you couldn't, but I think you would be asking for trouble which, to me, wouldn't be worth it.

    Another two weeks and that room's gonna be bustlin'! Looking forward to seeing FloraDuo in action.
     
  6. Geez, you know what, the more I think about it, forget the hydroton....You've got thirty a them thangs there, I forgotzt. That'd cost you a bit a coin and really they'll be fine without it.

    I think I just like it cuz it looks cool:rolleyes::smoke:
     
  7. Yes, you want to wrap your buckets. The greenish ones may not be an issue, but I'd wrap them all, just the same, and cover the tops with a piece of cardboard or something to keep light off the surface of the perlite.

    I love the design of the tables, and the run-off. Very clever. I've build "hempy buckets" out of PVC which included a pumped dripper, and a line running to waste. Essentially a hempy/ebb flow hybrid.

    To build a REAL simple dripper system, You can use anything as a reservoir (big trash can with a lid) You'll need an aquarium pump that can be fit with 1/2" PVC piping, and go check out Lowes/Home Depot for the section where they sell all the lawn/plant watering systems. You should be able to find a manifold with 6-8 outputs and tiny valves. Pick one of those up, and some 1/4" drip line, and the drippers themselves. Perhaps something like 1/2GPH, then you can put the pump on a timer.. Have it run for 15 minutes a couple times a day, or an hour once per day, etc... You'll need to experiment a little bit with it, but this is an inexpensive, and easy to build drip feed system. I have one in a 5 gallon bucket feeding 6 2 liter hempy buckets.
     
  8. And there ya go.....glad ya got some other perspective here now. :) Long as I'm here, anything new happen in the 3 minutes since my last post?
     
  9. #9 Swami, Dec 14, 2011
    Last edited by a moderator: Dec 14, 2011
    I am going to speak sacrilege.

    I have done several soilless grows. I don't use a drain hole so there is never any run-off and my plants do perfectly fine.

    Fill your undrilled bucket to the 2" mark and then pour it back out into a measuring container. Now you know how much water to add. Let your plants start to droop between waterings and note the number of days and know you know how often to water. Obviously the bigger they are the more frequent the waterings.

    Simple.

    Clean.

    No mess.
     
  10. Swami's idea is a good one, too. The only thing I'd worry about, in this case, is what to do in case you need to flush them...
     
  11. #11 Swami, Dec 14, 2011
    Last edited by a moderator: Dec 14, 2011
    That is certainly a consideration, but one I have yet to encounter. Probably because I always slightly underfertilize my plants and so don't experience nute lock-out or nute burn.

    The solution is simple. Drill your hole and plug it with gum or cork or silicon or...
     
  12. That set up looks like sooo much work. I think hempy buckets would be cool got a few plants but man, I'd never do that many plants (Felony in my area) and those are looking droopy and stretched.
     
  13. Thanks again BHP, I appreciate your help and advice:wave:

    Interesting advice Swami, it does sound like there might be quite a savings in nutes. But I'm wondering, if you have to wait until the plants have "drank" all/most of the water in the bottom res (thus the wilting yes?) before adding more, I'm wondering if you might not be depriving them of nutes, or not feeding at max/optimal levels.

    I say this because I've been measuring the level of nutes in the waste and, although it does seem to be slowly climbing, it has ranged from 460ppm to 510ppm. Now my thinking may be wrong-headed here, but as the nutes are absorbed and ppm's decrease, doesn't that mean that there is a corresponding reduction in the uptake (or the potential thereof) in the root system? I'm thinking that by constantly providing fresh and "fully charged" nute solutions on a more frequent basis, wouldn't you be maximizing the plants growth potential? Let me know if this makes sense or if I'm just overanalyzing the whole thing :rolleyes:


    Hey Ms Z, I agree that it is a bit of work, although as I've gotten it down to a system it's not actually much more than about 10 -12 minutes (well that and about 5 minutes to mix up 5-gal of solution). Now this may increase as I move into the bloom phase but I'm also trying to set up a system where I'll have a power spray wand system which should make life a little easier, vamos a ver, lol.

    And yeah, I worry about LEO, but where I live any cultivation (up to 50 kilos) is a 5-yr felony and goes up from there, so fuck em I'll just grow up to that amount and takes ma chances (don't think I don't lose a bit of sleep now and then worrying, cuz I do for sure :().

    And yes, some of them got stretched a bit - I didn't have all my ducks in order and it took longer than I'd planned to get everything in place, so the seedlings spent a lot longer under floros than I wanted so about 1/3 of them are kinda lanky. But as I said earlier, I've got a dozen different genetics going and of course there's some variations even among those, so there are some that have that short, broad-leafed pheno and they kinda look droopy while perfectly healthy. Plus I got a bit of nute burn early on and because I don't like looking at damaged leaves (with so many plants it makes it hard to keep track of what was there before and what's new and needs attention) I pruned some of the early growth. But otherwise I can tell that several have hit the res and are growing a lot more quickly so I'm happy to say that so far things are looking good, knock on wood :D
     
  14. I respect that out ya. The determination seems to drive most of us. You have that shit on lock. I wouldn't of ever guessed it would be that little work.
     
  15. Thanks Ms Z, and I agree that if you set your mind on doing something and see every obstacle as a challenge rather than a barrier, you can accomplish just about anything (being an eternal optimist doesn't hurt either, lol).

    That said, I'm as lazy as the next guy and so am always looking for easier ways to do things as long as it's done right. The other night I actually dreamt I had this whole thing on autopilot with these little mini-sprinklers hanging over each bucket and even some kind of turn-table device under them all connected by some chain driven device and timers so that they slowly turned the plants for me, lol. It was a wacky looking setup but looked like it might actually work (if I only had the money to build it:smoke:).
     
  16. #16 fearnoevil, Dec 16, 2011
    Last edited by a moderator: Dec 17, 2011
    So I've upped the nutes to 1600ppm yesterday, so far so good, but the ppm of the runoff jumped to 700ppm, and I'm not sure what that means exactly. Now the growth has increased rapidly over the last couple of days, so am I correct in thinking this means that the roots are reaching the reservoirs? Also, if this is true does that mean I can back off on the frequency of watering to say every other day? Is there a way to gauge how often to feed by reading the ppm of the runoff as well?

    While this isn't a log (I should probably start one if I wasn't so lazy, lol), I thought I'd post a couple of pix to show the progress. All I can say is, WOW, what a difference 4 days makes! I don't believe I've ever seen quite as much of a growth spurt with dirt, aside from the initial flowering stretch. So far I'm loving hydro and Hempy Buckets :love: :love: :love:
     

    Attached Files:

  17. Last night I started to get just a touch of nute burn on a couple of the Haze Auto and Red Dwarf so I backed off and did a light feeding @ 650ppm and today they looked happier. Getting em ready to switch to flower anyway so I'll begin to change ratios starting tonight.

    I have a question about pH - can't remember if I read this somewhere or if my mind is playing tricks on me (reading/studying so much sometimes makes my head spin and I can get easily confused, lol). But anyway, is it a good idea to vary your solutions pH from time to time? IOW, maybe mix it up @ 5.8 one day then 6 on another, then 5.6 etc. Sounds a bit kooky on the surface, but maybe there's a good reason, I just can't remember what it might be, lol.:bongin:
     
  18. #18 bhp70, Dec 18, 2011
    Last edited by a moderator: Dec 18, 2011
    No, you've read it. Lots of folks out there subscribe to swinging pH from low to high and EC from high to low consistently as a means of ensuring balanced nutrient uptake, exposing the plant to different pH's to get optimum uptake of different nutrients at different levels. Of course, this is generally in recirc systems, and I have yet to dig up any hard science that lays this out as gospel. Not opposed to it, just haven't found it myself.

    Since a large portion of the root zone is continually drying out and being resaturated, the pH in your root zone is going to fluctuate automatically anyway even if you are always watering with a similar pH nutrient solution.

    Not critiquing any philosophies here, but IME with GH Micro/Bloom in Hempys, keeping the pH between 6 and 6.2 works well.
     
  19. PS brotherman, not that it matters at ALL, but my gut reaction to that 1600ppm was, holy shit, but I'm not one to stifle creativity.

    I'm curious what the ppm comes out to with just the FloraDuo before the additives. Is it comparable to the traditional Lucas Formula ppm values?
     
  20. Just took a bunch of cuts off these, so they're a little rough around the edges, but 6.1-6.2 every time does work A'OK in my room.
     

    Attached Files:

Share This Page